163: What Is A Brand World & Why It Makes Every Piece of Marketing More Effective with Cassie Pannier

Sabrina Gebhardt: On today’s episode of the Shoot It Straight podcast, I have a new guest and my friend Cassie here, and we are talking about this idea of creating a brand world instead of just relying on pretty brand visuals. And you might be wondering, what does that mean? Don’t worry. We get into it in today’s episode.

She also gives just so many incredible nuggets, and honestly, I’m still obsessed with this one example she gave and how she ties it into cocktails. Just wait. You’ll see it really made some light bulbs go off for me, and I really understood what she was teaching in this concept with this example. But why do you want a brand world instead of just brand visuals?

Well, at the end of the day, it makes your marketing so much easier because you have these, this rich depth of referrals, people marketing for you, because they can’t imagine anyone else hiring anyone other than you. And at the end of the day, that means that your marketing is easier. You don’t have to hustle as hard.

We also talk about not only what this brand world is and why you want it, but how to start taking the steps to building this brand world. My friends, this is unlike any other guest I’ve had on the podcast. It is such an incredible conversation. I know you’re gonna love Cassie so much, so let’s dive in.

Welcome to the Shoot at Straight podcast, where honesty meets heart and real talk actually means something. I’m your host, Sabrina Gebhart, and each week we get vulnerable, practical, and just a little bit bold so you can feel seen, supported, and ready to take the next step in your photography journey.

Let’s go.

Welcome back to the Shoot at Straight podcast, my friends. Today I have a brand new guest. She’s new to you, the listener. She’s not new to me. Um, Cassie Panier is here, and I’m, I’m really, really excited about what we’re gonna talk about today. Cassie, I feel like you’re a little bit of a, I don’t wanna call you a jack of all trades, but you have expertise in multiple things.

And what we’re talking about today is something that you and I have not talked about. I know that you’re an expert in this, uh, because I follow you online. And so I’m excited that you’re gonna bring it to the listeners and to me for the first time. So I’m a little bit jealous, uh, that everybody gets to hear it at the same time I do.

But, uh, I know it’s gonna be a great conversation. But before we get started in things, will you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Cassie Pannier: Of course. Thanks for having me. I am Cassie and I’m a brand strategist and designer, and I help female founders and creatives build brands that stand out and feel like them.

My background is actually, I started in custom wedding stationary design back way back when I graduated college. Uh, I graduated with a degree in graphic design, so this has always kind of been like underneath my Jill of all, all trades. That’s kind of where my heart really lies, is in the design world.

That that wedding stationary business really gave me that first taste of entrepreneurship. And then later, I kind of spent a lot of years behind the scenes of a creative education business who Sabrina knows, obviously Darcy Vana. And I worked alongside her in like the operations and design and client experience and kind of, you know, like she said, wearing all of those hats.

And that’s where I really started kind of noticing a pattern with. Her students and clientele, where a lot of times I was noticing that they were very talented, mostly photographers, um, and people in the creative service industries, but they were struggling to book the right people or they felt invisible despite all of the great work that they were doing.

They were using a lot of times the same templates, the same formulas, the same Instagram strategies, and just ultimately blending in with their peers. And so that’s kind of what just inspired me to build, gathering, creative, and go all in on my brand design business is helping creatives break out of that echo chamber and create brands that really felt magnetic to their audience.

Sabrina Gebhardt: Like I said, I, I follow you on Instagram and I’ve been seeing that brand, you growing that brand and working with clients. And I’m curious, before we get into our chat today, from what I see on the outside, it appears that it’s an extremely high touch experience that you have with the women that you’re working with.

Like how many clients are you taking at a time? Is it just one at a time? Like what does that process kind of look like?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah, so it kind of depends on what sort of container that we decide is best for each client. So there’s obviously the larger project containers that are. I would say more so for people who have teams and they’re really ready to scale.

But then as far as like, you know, solopreneurs or smaller teams, um, a lot of the service provider clients that I have, we work in a smaller container just to make things a little bit more accessible and kind of have quicker results. So that container looks a little bit more like a. Honestly, it’s, it’s, it’s called my Design Intensive.

And it’s a single day of designing together where you can have really fast action results for, I don’t wanna say a lower investment investment ’cause I don’t want to undervalue what you are getting, or every investment is subjective to what everybody’s budget is. But it does kind of make the brand design experience a lot more accessible because ultimately brand design was.

Created for large businesses. And so those processes and everything have always been really expensive and inaccessible to smaller businesses. And so a lot of people have it in their heads that I can’t afford branding. I’m gonna have to do a DIY, I’m gonna have to do a template or. Of that and some, and for some brand design businesses, that is the truth.

Like they don’t offer more accessible options. But that’s where I kind of wanted to meet these, you know, creative service providers, where they were at and what they needed, and give them what they need, but without making it too expensive, also not undervaluing what branding is So.

Sabrina Gebhardt: I didn’t realize that.

Okay. That’s super cool. Um, you can share more about that later if you want, but if you guys don’t follow her on Instagram, please do. I will link her in the show notes. Obviously, um, her work is. Cassie, your work is stunning. So anyways, okay, let’s get into today’s conversation. Um, today we are talking about this idea of not just building a brand, but building a brand world.

And I, again, how many times can I say, I’m excited to jump into this conversation today, but you’re talking about creating like more connection and more intentional experiences out of this brand world, not just a pretty portfolio. The goal of that is to see repeat clients referrals coming left and right naturally, and that kind of buzz that just makes your marketing feel simpler and easier.

And so let’s just start at the very beginning. What is a brand world?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah. So kind of like you said, it’s more than the visuals of what people typically think of when it comes to a brand. So if you zoom out a little bit, you think about like currently what the. Consumer market looks like in 2025, and a lot of it is, is built under this influencer marketing.

And so if you kind of take notes from what influ, what works with influencer marketing and it’s, you know, a sense of belonging, a sense of identity, a sense of ease, emotional connection, a story that people can be a part of. So like I think of like Haley Bieber or even, you know, getting even simpler, Taylor Swift.

People belonging to her, I guess tribe, so to speak, know exactly that feeling, that being a fan of theirs, it has, and buying their products. It’s not about the lip gloss or the matcha latte or, you know, the, the bracelets or the music even. I mean, I’m sure maybe people who are big fans of Taylor Swift would disagree.

But it’s more so that sense of belonging, um, and that identity of being a fan of theirs. And so when you can take notes from that in influencer marketing world and these kind of like celebrities who have created their own brand worlds and apply that to your own business, there’s so much. And like you said, referrals and repeat customers that you can have.

That’s kind of what we want to do. We want to build a world around your lifestyle, your aesthetic, your experience that you give people so that you can have those referrals or repeat clients. The clients who say, oh, I got a girl. She’s my photographer. You have to, you have to book her. Because having that person say that it’s like, not only it’s a status symbol for them to be like, oh, I got a girl.

But it’s also a status symbol for you because now you are being referred left and right because they like hype you up so much that you’re, they’re never gonna book a different photographer. Two, I have

Sabrina Gebhardt: two things right off the bat. Um, number one, you probably don’t know this, but I am a swifty. So when you said that it, it fully connected the dots for me because.

Yes, we love her music. Like obviously numbers don’t lie. Her sales and her concerts and she breaks every record every time. She’s the, she’s always the record holder. She continues to break her own records, but when you’re in her world, there’s so much more depth to that, right? Like we know that she’s a cat lady.

We know that she loves to bake. We know that she’s a feminist. We know that she is, has this really tight relationship with her mom. We know that she’s a girl’s girl. Like there’s all these things that are deeper than that that make us love her more. Even if she went on a sabbatical and didn’t release music for five years, her world is still growing because we connect to her as a human.

Taking that a step further, when you were talking about referrals and making people adore you and your brand so much that they wouldn’t consider hiring somebody else. I think about the service providers that I work with and the ones that I like am obsessed with, and there are people that when they ask for a referral for a stylist or somebody to help with their CRM or somebody to help with their podcast or whatever.

I not only have a recommendation and I tell them, I use this person and here’s why, but I always follow it up with, and I’m obsessed with them because da, da, da, da, da, da, none of which are related to their business, right? It’s like we connect over this and she’s so fun and this is her personality and la all of that goes beyond.

The, the facts of what is their job, who do they serve? You know what I mean? And so I totally connected with both of those things that you just said, and I love that. When photographers and business owners think about branding, we know that oftentimes they think about pictures and logos. Like, they’re like, that’s all I need for my brand is what are my colors and what’s the font?

Um, it’s that visual stuff. So how do we go deeper in to create this brand world beyond just first impression visuals?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah. So the way I like to explain it is. The, the logos, the colors, the fonts, the photos, all of that matters. It truly does. That is like what is going to initially, like attract people to you.

And so I don’t ever wanna discount that, especially because that’s the world that I live in. But there’s, so it does go so much deeper. And how I like to explain it is the, those elements, those visuals are like the glass of a cocktail. They kind of like. Hold everything in. They’re the container. But what goes in the cocktail is what keeps people coming back.

That’s what people, people like are like, oh, gimme another, you know? It’s those flavors and, and the, the garnishes and all of those things that make you more memorable. Your, your story goes into that. Your vibe, your values, your message, the little quirks that you have about you, those are the things that people want to keep coming back for.

And the visuals of it is really just the attractiveness. It’s what sticks in people’s mind visually. But again, you know, the, the things that you are bringing up when you’re having these conversations with, with your friends are not like, oh my gosh, their logo is beautiful. It’s about like, oh, she’s a swifty too, and you know, she has three kids, or whatever that is.

And it’s those little. Tidbits and sneak peeks behind the scenes of who that makes that, what makes that person unique, that are the memorable pieces that you’re gonna talk about. I think I should give you an award for the best,

Sabrina Gebhardt: like visual representation of something because the cocktail and the glass and what’s inside, I’m like, that is a gold star, a plus example.

Um, we can all understand that whether you’re a cocktail drinker or a mocktail drinker or you just appreciate it like. I get it. You know when you go, that’s exactly the truth. Like presentation is beautiful, but the flavor is what you’re like, I need three more of those. I need to come here every week for happy hour.

You know, I imagine that when you’re building this brand world, you’re, you’re trying to, to have this brand world for yourself. There’s strategy, right? There’s, there’s got to be a lot of deep strategy involved. Talk to me about what that looks like and getting started.

Cassie Pannier: It’s things like clarifying your story and your values, like what makes.

What you do so important and how does that manifest itself into your brand and, and what you put out into the world. And it’s defining like your tone of voice and how you show up, building your client experience that feels truly aligned with who you are and how you want to serve your people. And then packaging your offers in a way that speaks directly to that right person.

I actually just worked with a, a family photography client that is repackaging her offers because currently her offers just are typical of what a lot of family photographers offer, and she was just finding that it, it wasn’t serving the clients in a way that they wanted to keep coming back for it. So her and I kind of brainstormed on what that new, those new offers could look like, so that they really, truly served her clients.

Where they were at. And I think that’s all, those are all things that people don’t really connect to their brand, but it’s all part of that brand world and about that experience and that feeling that people get when they’re experiencing your brand. AKA you, when you’re a solopreneur.

Sabrina Gebhardt: You just gave me like a little nugget of an example of this family photographer and like fine tuning her offers as part of the process, but can you give me like a bigger example of if you start working with someone, or maybe it’s somebody you don’t work with, it’s a, maybe it’s a brand we all know or something, but can you give me an example of like how you would start to dig into the strategy of.

Somebody’s brand world.

Cassie Pannier: Yeah. So I would start with kind of revisiting your, your origin story. Like what makes you, you. What unique characteristics do you have? And that can look like anything. Like, you know, you’re a super organizer. You, you just find so much joy out of like organizing your pantry or whatever, whatever weird things that you have about you.

Not that that’s weird ’cause I, I love organizing my pantry too, but like, just kind of like weird quirks about you that make you unique. And then just kind of like take notes on those sorts of things. And then, you know, you audit your client experience. So what does it feel like to work with you? So what specific steps in your process are unique to you that you can apply back?

Maybe even to that, that tidbit of, you know, okay. That relates to organizing my pantry. I’m a very organized person. I can help my clients organize. Their, um, shoot schedule or their choose their wardrobe. I don’t know what that looks like, but kind of connecting the dots there, writing those things down. A lot of times I recommend that my clients ask their past clients what made the experience with them memorable.

Why did they choose them? Why did they, or especially even repeat clients, why did you come back to me? Because honestly, though, they’re the best, they’re gonna be able to tell you those things the best, more so than you guessing. So. That’s always really, really great information. It sometimes feels awkward, but it’s so worth its weight in gold.

So if you can do that, that’s totally what I recommend. And then looking for patterns in like, um, you know, when we’re talking about photography, your editing style, your language, your energy, certain phrases that you use a lot. And again, little quirks like, uh, I know Darcy became known for being a big fan of Jason Momoa and The Rock, and so like just kind of becoming known.

For certain like little quirks that you talk about a lot. And I think I did know that you were actually a Swifty fan and so I, I connect you to that now. Uh, and then how can you can like package all of that up into a service in a space that people want to be in and. Give them things that like, they don’t have to know when they meet up with you for your shoot or whatever they, they already know what they’re gonna talk to you about.

They’re gonna be like, you know, I saw you post about your kids in college and you know, all of the, these things about you that you’re sharing with your world. And just kind of having those common themes that you can kind of tie everything back to and become known for.

Sabrina Gebhardt: That what you just said about when you meet up with clients and they already have like a talking point I can think of so many times over the years with both types of my clients.

’cause the listeners know I, I basically have two parts of my business, right? I have photo clients and then I have education clients. So whether I’m meeting photo clients for the first time at a session, or I’m meeting education clients for the first time at a retreat or at a conference. I get the same kind of thing.

Women are like, oh my gosh, that thing you posted last week and it really resonated with me. Or, I read that book too, or I saw that Taylor Swift meme, whatever, like there’s connection points and it comes up naturally and honestly, isn’t that the best feeling because in that moment you’re like, I’m attracting the Exactly.

Right. Like it just literally, it feels energetically. Like you’re in the right spot.

Cassie Pannier: Which is, which is what we all want, right? Yeah. And sometimes I feel like you, you can find yourself questioning like, okay, is this even relevant to what I’m doing? But I feel like when you do share those little tidbits, it does create these connection points.

And while in the moment of you posting it, it doesn’t feel significant, but it is. Whether people respond to it, engage with it or not. Um, it becomes kind of this collective library of things that people can now talk to you and connect with you about.

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I’m sure the listeners’ like, oh my gosh, I need a brand world. I need to nail this down. This is fascinating it, which it totally is, and I pretending like I’m a listener again, I’m learning about this from you for the first time. Part of me thinks. I’ve got a little bit of it going already, like without even realizing it, you know?

But it’s certainly not optimized or fine tuned. So how does someone start taking steps towards identifying and picking out what’s going to be a part of their brand world to create that strategy?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah, so first what I would do and to kind of give yourself like a little bit of a mini test on whether or not you even have a brand world to start with is.

If you took away your portfolio, what would be left? Like, would people be able to recognize your vibe, your message, your process? If someone like screenshotted your Instagram profile or your website, would they feel something or would they just be like, oh, that’s pretty, like, what kind of feelings are those giving off?

If you’re, if you’re not, if, if those sorts of things are not recognizable. Start kind of digging in deeper into your origin story, the pieces of gold from like your past or your story that help explain your why behind what you do. You pick a touch point in your client journey that you could upgrade that makes it unique to you, whether that’s like your inquiry form, your welcome guide, how you deliver your galleries, maybe the little gift that you give.

Anything like that that you can start to. Upgrade and infuse more personality into, because I mean, ultimately you’re not just selling photos. You don’t want people to just think of this as like a transactional experience. You want them to think of it as. Experience that they want all of their friends to experience as well.

That you want people to be sitting over, you know, a cocktail or a mocktail and sharing with their friends, like, oh, you know, you really have to use my photographer. She’s the, she’s the best. And by kind of pinpointing those things, you are able to be more aware of these uniquenesses that you have and bring them into your experience and your messaging and things.

Sabrina Gebhardt: Okay. I love that. I, I’m curious before, before we leave the listeners with like a, some tangible steps, which everybody knows I love to do when I have guest experts on. I wanna touch on like the benefits of this, because I know that there’s listeners that are thinking, I love this in theory, but also this sounds like a lot of work and kind of a big overhaul to my image because there are a ton, you and I know this, a ton of photographers out there who do rely on their portfolio and they did buy like a cookie cutter, brand visual package from Etsy or Creative Market.

And, um, they’ve got some very super simple basic vanilla website template and they’re just rocking and rolling, right? Maybe they’ve only been in business for a few years, maybe they’re just starting out, but vanilla and the basics have been working for them. So stepping into this next level, which probably involves not only this brand world creation, but kind of an overhaul of pricing, of niching, of all of that, which we know is necessary to get to the next level and to level up and to kind of step into that, that higher tier.

It’s kind of overwhelming. It’s a lot, right? It’s a lot. Especially when it’s absolutely not what they’ve been doing. Because when you said the question is, if you took away your portfolio, what would the vibe be? And I’m like, oh my gosh. So many of the people that I coach, if you took away the portfolio, there’s nothing left.

It’s literally a wasteland. There’s nothing left other than their portfolio. I want you to kind of, I wanna connect with them emotionally a little bit and give them the encouragement they need to get over the overwhelmed part of this. What are the benefits to having this deeper brand world into making the effort instead of just relying on visuals?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah, absolutely. So the difference between someone booking you once. Someone booking you again and again, and sending all of their friends. And so when you build this brand world, you’re, you’re creating loyalty. You’re building that trust, you’re making your marketing easier because people already understand you and they wanna be a part of your world.

Ultimately, your brand starts working with you so that you don’t have to hustle so hard to stay visible because your marketing is kind of like. Doing its own job. You know, like your, your past, your client base is doing your, your marketing for you ultimately. And so it feels overwhelming at first, I think, when you think about it.

But I think everything you can kind of just take it one step at a time and start by identifying those things that you make unique and then start just like as you. Work through, you know, like your marketing and your website copy and your client experience. I would start with your client experience really, and start just infusing those unique parts of you into that experience instead of just following the formula that maybe you were given.

While I think formulas are a great foundation and starting point, I think that there’s always, always, always needs to be customization to that to make it you. For the listener who is overwhelmed, just take it one step at a time and just start by identifying those things and you’ll find that you’ll naturally, as you put new things out into the world, start infusing those elements of yourself to start slowly building up that brand world.

Sabrina Gebhardt: I’m gonna go off the cuff and add like a part B to this question, which I think you kind of answered just now. Is this, is this building, this brand world? Going back to saying that, you know, it’s kind of overwhelming if they’re coming from vanilla and they’re like, I wanna get on the other side of the mountain and have this deep, rich brand world with referrals and this vibe and everything.

It’s a lot. Can this be done in layers or is this something where you’re like, no, let’s rip the bandaid off and redo the visuals. Redo the website, redo the client experience. Is there a benefit to doing it slowly or diving all in?

Cassie Pannier: I think the benefit to doing it slowly, especially if you’re doing it on your own, is that you can kind of avoid that overwhelm of this feeling like you’re biting off more than you can chew, but also kind of giving yourself time to discover yourself.

I think sometimes when you’re in this echo chamber of an industry, you don’t even realize that you’re trying to mirror what other people around you are doing. And allowing yourself time to, I guess, change your mind about what you want to be known for a little bit, rather than diving all in on one thing, but then you’re like, okay, wait, that’s not even me.

Why am I doing this? So I think that’s the benefit of doing it in layers is that you can kind of find yourself as you like, uncover, and dig and put yourself out there a little bit more. But when I do recommend RI ripping off the bandaid is when you are in that place where you want to scale quickly. And you want to hire a professional to help you do that, and you just want, want those results faster, you know, and that’s where I think the ripping the bandaid off kind of applies is when you’re ready to invest in that experience and you know, just getting there faster, you kind of have that a little bit more clarity around.

I already know I am a swifty or you know, I we’re, we’re using a lot of Taylor Swift’s in, in this podcast, but when people really know what they’re about and they don’t really need to do that kind of uncovering and that digging, um, then that can be a really great place to start is just hiring someone to kind of put that in.

But also, if you are having a hard time uncovering what makes you unique and like. Pinpointing that that is something, while it’s hard to do for yourself, a lot of times hiring a professional does help kind of pinpoint those things that maybe you didn’t even notice were unique about you. Maybe they just feel so minute to you, but they’re really not in the grand scheme of things when it comes to your clients and the experience that you give.

Sabrina Gebhardt: I agree with that so much. I, I often have a really hard time identifying things about myself, but when somebody else with an outside perspective tells me, I’m like, oh yeah, you’re totally spot on with that. And so that’s why, I mean, this is another conversation, but that’s why I always have a coach or people that are coaching me in different ways because I need them to mirror back to me like what they’re seeing, what trends and things and all of that.

So. Exactly that. I think it’s easier to have somebody from the outside looking in give you that clarity that we often muddy up in our own mind and in our own world. And I’m the same way with the women I coach. I can recognize things and then instantly that they don’t see. So let’s circle all the way back to the beginning when I was asking you about like what it’s like to work with you.

So let’s say a listener here is hearing this and they’re like, uh, sold just Cassie. I wanna work with you. I want you to do the whole thing quickly. What does that look like if somebody wants to hire you to go all the way in to go from vanilla to brand depth? Full service with you? What does that look like?

Cassie Pannier: Yeah, for sure. So I have a few different, as I mentioned, where we, there’s a, the, a full service brand identity option, which again, is kind of more for those like larger teams, right? To really scale and go beyond what you’re currently offering. Like when you have, when you want to, you know, jump from just photographer to like education coach, all of those things that might be a little bit more where you need to be.

But if you are kind of sticking in that like service provider space and you kind of just have that. One niche that you’re really trying to hit. I recommend doing this brand intensive option where I’ve basically taken that full service brand identity process and really paired it down to give you exactly what you need to reach the clientele that you want.

And I’ve paired it with the brand strategy portion where we do all of that digging and that uncovering, and that creating your messaging and even kind of like honing your offers to make sure that everything just feels so unique to you. That nobody can even copy you, and that it becomes so unmistakable, people can identify you again, like if we were to take your photos out of the picture, people can identify you by just your voice and your messaging and the things that you’re known for.

The brand intensive and the brand strategy together, I feel like are just the, the perfect combination to kind of really start creating that brand world. Because not only do you have that brand intensive, um, design day where it’s like the single day we really dig deep and create your logo suite, your colors, your fonts, and everything that reflect your strategy that we’ve created in the beginning.

But it just really creates that great foundation to jump off and like, like we said, rip that bandaid off and really. Create that brand world that we’re talking about.

Sabrina Gebhardt: Okay. I love that. That’s so exciting. Um, I’ll make sure to link your services and stuff, um, in the show notes for sure. Okay. So Cassie, I love to end, uh, guest episodes, just asking some fun questions so the audience can kind of get to know you a little bit better.

So I’m curious, uh, do you have a hobby or something fun that you’re pursuing this year? Purely for joy.

Cassie Pannier: Yeah, so I had to think about this one because I am a mother to three little girls, and so hobbies feel like a distant dream. But I do, I am an introvert at heart and so I do enjoy reading some good, you know, shameless obsession with like romance novels and a glass of wine at night after the kids go to bed is like kind of my happy place.

So I would say that’s my current hobby, if you call that.

Sabrina Gebhardt: I remember being in the season of life that you’re in, and it’s so exhausting, and you’re right, like there, there were no hobbies. There was no free time. You know? Now I can tell you as a little piece of encouragement, I’m in the season where my youngest is 10 and my oldest is almost 18, and so everybody’s a little more self-sufficient now and.

They go to school all day, every day. They’ve got extracurriculars they can entertain themselves, and so I’m kind of like reentering this. Oh, I have time for hobbies. I can go do things by myself. I can think straight. It’s obviously a very different season of parenting, but it’s kind of. Lovely to get to kind of get to know myself again.

Uh, you know, 20 years after I started having kids. And so this year, like I’ve taken up watercolor and I read a ton and I’ve also like leaned into all kinds of new fun types of like self-care that I like, spend time doing and. Just the summer I started committed to like writing morning pages every morning.

So you’ll get there, you will get to a place where you get to do all these fun things again. Um, I, I promise we’ll be there for

Cassie Pannier: you forward.

Sabrina Gebhardt: Totally. Okay. Cassie, what is something that you’re always up to talk about?

Cassie Pannier: So, I mean, I guess kind of relating back to, I guess the branding thing is just like. How underrated the empowerment that you get from having a really strong strategic and beautiful brand.

I feel like I’ve seen, especially with some of my more recent clients, it gives them just a sense of like confidence and clarity that is just so unstoppable. And honestly, I just feel like that’s so priceless for us women entrepreneurs to be able to like step out into the world in such a confident way.

I don’t know. It just, I, I see that transformation and while I love like the, the ROI and everything behind that, I’m like a big numbers girly, but just seeing that confidence, I, I don’t know, it lights me up and it, it’s why I do what I do and I just love it so much. I could talk about it for days.

Sabrina Gebhardt: I love that.

I, I have a marketing course and a lot of. The premise of the course is kind of similar to your brand world. It, it’s not the same, but it’s similar in that the thread of everything I teach is connecting with your audience, not just selling, like I’m a photographer. When women get to the end of the course and they have this, that clarity, that light bulb of like how they, they can connect with people and that, that it’s actually so much easier than they’re making it out to be, um, because they just need to be themselves.

Seeing that freedom and that energy and that excitement come out of that and then seeing the results they get from starting to market their business that way, in a way that feels easier and that is more effective, is just awesome. So I love that. Okay. I’m curious, I know you’ve got three littles, but do you have a vacation planned or any travel.

Cassie Pannier: I do actually, we’re just leaving this weekend to go to the Ozarks for a few days for a family lake trip. So I’m excited to unplug as much as I can with my three kids, but soak up some slow mornings by the water and kind of just have a, make some summer memories before they are to, you know, old, older and not wanting to spend time with mom and dad as much.

And you know. Kinda look forward to doing that, but

Sabrina Gebhardt: yeah. That’s awesome. Um, I have never been to the Ozarks. That sounds lovely. Are your girls good travelers?

Cassie Pannier: Uh,

Sabrina Gebhardt: debatable. I understand that. Um, well we just got back from Colorado. We do two weeks in Colorado every summer. It was amazing. And now we’re back to Texas and it’s way too hot.

This at time of recording. This is July. Um, and it’s. Miserable. So I’m already dreading being home, but for me, what is my next trip? Um, oh, I’m actually going to Utah in just a few weeks to see Darcy. So, um, love that. I’m really, I know, I’m really excited about that. But let’s see. I also have, I’ve got a trip to Chicago planned later this fall with my two business besties.

We’re gonna have a working weekend there, and then my husband and I are going to Turks and Caicos in November to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary. So I’m so jazzed about that. ’cause we’ve never been,

Cassie Pannier: oh my gosh, that sounds

Sabrina Gebhardt: like so much fun. Yeah, I’m excited. Um, okay. Last question. Is there a business tool or hack that you’re loving right now?

Cassie Pannier: Uh, yeah. So right now I am really into sending, like walkthrough video walkthroughs of my proposals. And I know this is something that a lot of people do, but I guess, again, I don’t know why relating it back to the brand world, it just like, it takes a few extra minutes, but I feel like it completely changes that experience.

I’ve seen personally just like a huge, um, shift in how many more like conversions. I guess I get when I do create that, that, and it just kind of like sticks in their mind as like, even if they don’t book for whatever reason, it just, it creates a memory in their mind of like, okay, I’m coming back to her because she put that extra little touch in.

So I think

Sabrina Gebhardt: it just adds so much to that. Yeah, I, I love that I have been on the receiving end of things like that, and. It is such an awesome touch. I’ve been on the receiving end of that in all kinds of industries. Like I just told you, we booked our, our anniversary trip and the travel agent we used, she did the same thing.

Like there was a video walkthrough of the link in the proposal and how to make changes and what it looked like and different tiers of service and all of that. And I was like, that just, I could have figured it out without that. But how great to have it. And then I’ve had business coaches who have given me proposals of working with them, but in the video proposal they also gave me like tangible recommendations, like a couple of quick tip, like free advice kind of stuff.

And I’ve just thought to myself, I didn’t pay anything for that. That’s amazing. You know, how far above and beyond to, to do that. So I love that recommendation. I love a good Loom video and like you said, it’s so easy to do and can be so impactful and so simple. So that’s a great wreck, my friend. Thank you.

Okay, so, uh, share with the audience how they can find you and connect.

Cassie Pannier: So, um, I think on almost every platform I am gathering creative and, uh, gather creative.com. Uh, I’d love to chat in the dms and connect with all of you guys. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. It was a great chat. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Sabrina Gebhardt: Thanks so much for listening to the Shoot It Straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at. Sabrina gehart.com/podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gehart Photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review.

Until next time, my friends shoot it straight.