214: Why Nothing Replaces Being in the Room with Laylee Emadi

Sabrina: Today on the Shoot It Straight podcast, I have my friend Laylee Emadi with me, and we are talking about what happens when you get into the room. So we’re talking about retreats, conferences, in-person events, and the impact that happens there. And listen, if you’ve been around here for a minute, you know that I love in-person education.

But I think you’re probably tired of just hearing me talk about it. So Laylee and I are going to talk about it from the perspective of what to expect when you are in the room, how to get the most of an experience, whether to know if it’s right for you to step into that particular space. And also, we kind of go on a little side tangent about the responsibility of both the educator and also the attendee to make sure that they’re getting the most out of the experience.

It really is a great chat, and I can’t wait to dive in. Let’s go

Welcome to Shoot It Straight, the podcast for women building businesses and lives they actually want. I’m Sabrina Gebhardt, and around here we believe in clarity over hustle, alignment over burnout, and giving yourself permission to want more: more ease, more beauty, more income, more space to live. So if you’re ready to grow without losing yourself in the process, you’re in the right place.

Welcome back to the Shoot It Straight podcast, my friends. Today, I have my friend Laylee here, and I’m so excited about this one. First of all, I cannot believe that Laylee has not been on the podcast before. Like, what are we doing? How is this possible? I’m not sure how we’ve gotten a couple hundred episodes in and my friend hasn’t been on before, but she’s here.

She is an educator, a speaker, and again, a friend of mine. She hosts incredible retreats, conferences. And she believes in what I believe in, and that there is incredible magic when you get into the room, and that just is not… You can’t find that magic anywhere else. So that’s what we’re talking about today.

But before we get too far into things, um, my friend, I would love for you to introduce yourself to the listeners.

Laylee: Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for having me. Um, I’m very honored to be here. I am… Like you said, we go way back. I am an educator, I’m a speaker, and I am an educator for educators, which is very meta and very weird, but I love it.

And I also host, uh, the Creative Educator Conference, as well as other events and things like that. And yeah, my goal in life, in business and in life, is to help create impact within other people’s communities so that they can continue to create that, um, ongoing kinda ripple effect in their own spaces.

And, um, and I love, I love what I get to do. And I actually used to be a full-time photographer before that, and so I, I have a very, very special place in my heart for photographers as well.

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah. And you have a lot of them in your world, uh, which is really fun. And you and I are so similar in a lot of ways.

I remember the first time that I went to the Creative Educator Conference. Uh, you probably don’t remember this, but I pulled you aside at one point, and I was like, “Hey, FYI, I totally noticed that you are playing a Taylor Swift playlist, and I am here for this.”

Laylee: I do remember that. I do remember that.

Sabrina: Yes, because at my retreats, we do the same thing.

So, um, we listen to the Queen and the Queen only, which is so funny. Um, okay, my friend, you and I, again, as I alluded to, we both believe in getting in the room and what magic happens there. I know that I have a story that kind of started it all for me, and I’m sure that you probably do too. So I would love to know, do you remember, like, the first room that you were in that changed something for you as an attendee, just in a room that you were invited into where you were like- Oh, okay.

There’s, this is different than anything else.

Laylee: Gosh, okay. Well, I have like a two-part answer to this, but also I really wanna hear your story, so I hope you’ll tell it. Um, for me, I honestly, the first… I, uh, the reason it’s twofold is because the first, like, time that I got, like quote unquote, “In the room,” and I went to a conference and I went outside my comfort zone, it did not…

It, it wasn’t the typical experience of, like, life changing immediately and, like, this was amazing and everything I wanted it to be. It was actually, like, terrifying and I wanted to die and it was awful. And, but at the same time, I actually left being like, “I’m so glad I went to that.” And so I like to always start there because it was my first conference, and it was not what I…

It wasn’t this magical experience that other people have alluded to that I was, like, so looking forward to experiencing. I felt very on the outside. I felt very on the outskirts. I felt very alone in a room full of people, as cliche as that sounds. But I still left feeling inspired and reinvigorated and ready to approach my business, and I tried to take stuff out of it.

And because I was like, “If this was the worst first experience, it can only go up from here,” I went to another event afterwards, and, um, it was a little smaller. The first conference I went to was, like, 400 people, and I think that was my biggest mistake. I went to one that was, um, like 150 next, and, and it was just completely different.

And I also had set intentions for myself differently, and that was, I remember having, like, set rules for myself. Like, I’m not gonna go hide in my room in between things. I’m not going to cut out early. If there’s an event, if there’s something where people are hanging out after, I’m not gonna say no and go to my room.

I’m going to say yes, even if I don’t want to. Because I am an introvert, and I can be a bit shy. People don’t really know that about me, because I’m, like… I typically, when, you know, you’re a speaker and you’re on the stage and you’re happy to, like, interact, you don’t come across that way. But I am pretty… I get a little bit nervous and I get a little bit shy.

And so going to that second event with that intention of, like, say yes even when you wanna say no, that was where things really took a turn for me. And I was like, “This is insane.” Like, the amount of connection, and, and I mean, like, perso- like interpersonal connection, not, like, connections that would, quote unquote, “Further my business,” which they did, but that wasn’t the intent at the time.

I mean, it was like It was like a year’s worth of internet conversation was taken care of in a night, and I felt just so deeply connected with people. And those are the same people that it’s ironically enough, like 14 years later, you’ll see at the conference as like my, my volunteer staff because they’re still my best friends.

So, like that was it for me. But the first one going poorly was actually probably for the best.

Sabrina: So incredible that you were brave enough to do another one, honestly. ‘Cause I think, I think that for a lot of people they would’ve been like, “All right, I’m out. This is not what everybody said it was gonna be,” and then they just are like, “Forget it.

I’m not gonna do this.” For me, it was c- it was quite different. I spent the first couple years of my business just doing online stuff, like not investing in in-person, ’cause we know that i- in-person it’s hard to get time away, it’s expensive, and I just, you know, I was, I was of the normal beginner mindset of like, “I don’t wanna pay that.”

You know, whatever. But it got to a point that we all know where it was like the, you know, the free education took me as far as it could, and I was like, “I’ve gotta put my money where my mouth is. I’ve got to like double down and invest in my business.” And I actually went from not investing anything in person to doing three in-person things in one year, and I like really was like, “Nope, we’re going all in.”

And I did all of the tiers, so to speak. I went to, um, an intimate retreat where there were 10 of us. It was a weekend. I went to a one-day intimate, like intensive where there was like seven of us, and then I went to a big conference. As you can imagine, I got something very different out of all three of those things.

The re- the small retreat was the most impactful by far. I made friends that I was friends with for years and years after that. I often tell the story on the podcast that that’s kind of the black and white line in the sand of the before and after of my business. And a lot of successes came faster and easier after that.

And I went into it not knowing anybody and just kinda put on my brave, big girl pants and had the most fantastic time. And truly, at that experience was when I was like, “I think I could do this someday.” Like, “I think I could host something to this capacity,” which is so fun that now I do that. Then the next experience I went to was like the one-day intensive, and that was not a great fit for me.

Not because of the format, but because of the room I put myself in. I made the mistake that a lot of people do where I kind of had FOMO from some people doing something, and I did it even though I should have kind of looked, read between the lines and seen that it wa- really wasn’t a good fit for me. So I learned a couple things.

I still am in contact with some of those people, but it was not- this big impactful thing for me. It wasn’t a bad experience, it just wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. And then I went to a big conference after that where I enjoyed that because I got to meet some of my internet friends in person, which was really fun.

And at that point, it was the third in-person educational thing I had done, so I was a little bit braver, didn’t feel like such a beginner, and so it was fun. But it, it taught me how different a large conference is as far as, like, experience and impact and takeaways from something smaller and more intimate.

So that’s my first experience with in-person things. But overall, I loved them, and I was like, “Oh, okay. I see why people rave about this.” Getting to step away from my home, step away from my reg- regular schedule, my kids, interact with people who get it, you know, ask questions. I just … I had such a great experience.

So, um, but it was really interesting ’cause I went from nothing to all the things in, in one year, uh, which was really fun. So I wanna talk about from your perspective What actually happens in a room? Like, what, why is being in a room so impactful? And again, you host all kinds of levels of events, you’ve been to all kinds of levels of events, size and, and all of that.

What’s so great about that that you can’t get on a Zoom call or in a Facebook group or something like that?

Laylee: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s, uh, there’s so many things that happen in a room that are hard to… They’re not impo- I will say this, I don’t think it’s impossible to have the same outcome on a Zoom call if you had, you know, a biweekly Zoom, like, like twice a week Zoom call with somebody that was, like, set in stone and you really showed up and you made the commitment to, like, drop all of your walls and immediately show up as yourself.

You can make that happen. It’s just a lot hard. I will say it’s just harder and it takes longer. That’s it. Like, I think something about being in a room with people face-to-face, up close and personal, people are just ready to let one another see a reality that we have been trained to hide online. And not everybody hides that online.

Like, I, I try really hard to be transparent, as transparent as I can online versus in person. However, there’s just a comfort in being up close and personal and being able to say like, “Hey, this is, this is what I’m going through.” Like you said, people get it because they’re showing up, they’re choosing to be in the same space as you.

So that leads me to, like, the second thing, which is that the space is cultivated for you already. It’s created, it’s ready for you to just step into, and all you have to do is show up as yourself, ready to, like, give and ready to receive whatever happens in that space. Whereas when you’re doing things online, like, you are in charge really of, like, what is that environment, what is that, what is that atmosphere going to lend itself to be?

And so I’ve had online masterminds that I’ve been a part of that have just been, like, peer led, where it takes months before anybody actually, like, helps one another in a way that’s impactful because everyone is so focused on like, “Well, I don’t really wanna, like, let go of this one little thing that I’m really holding onto,” or, “I don’t really want them to see that I’m struggling with X, Y, and Z.”

But, like, when you get in person, it’s so much easier to just say, “Hey, nice to meet you. Here’s everything that’s wrong and here’s everything that’s right, and here’s everything that I wish I had help with. Now you go.” And, and there’s just something about that where I think we all revert to a comfort that we don’t have when we’re on screens.

And so I, I think that’s one thing that really happens in the room, is people are just so much more willing to show up and be 100% committed. I also think the time allotment is so much different. Like you said, you’re leaving all of your other responsibilities. Here, when we’re on the internet, we’re literally like, “Okay, I’ve got 30 minutes.

I’ve got an hour You know? And then I have, I, my mind is elsewhere. But you’re, you’re immersed in, in a time and space that is dedicated to something, and you’re able to really show up fully. Whereas online, you’re really not. And no matter, I mean, even if you set the intention, like, “Yeah, I’ll be here fully for, like an hour,” but then I’m not.

And so you’re able to just kind of get so much more… Not just, not even like so much more done, but so much more out in the open than you would, you know, like from the comfort of your own home. You almost have to be uncomfortable a little bit, and you have to be unable to escape it, like for lack of a better…

Like, I hate to say that, but like, you really cannot run away. Like, and that’s really important, I think.

Sabrina: Yeah, the, the immersion piece is so true. It’s, it’s like, even if you’ve never done something like this before, and you know you’re not gonna know anybody, and you’re really, really nervous, you’ve already mentally decided that you’re like locking in.

You’re like, “Well, I got on an airplane, and I’m walking into this room right now, and I’m here.” And so you’ve already committed to that. You’re not watching the timer on the laundry. You’re not about to go let the dogs outside. You’re not like, whatever. But also, I think there’s something to be said about all of the little, tiny human connection pieces that happen in person that are so small.

You know? Like you’re hugging someone in person, or you’re seeing what soda they’re choosing from the fridge, or how they sit and hold their notebook. Like, all of that stuff is really, really tiny, but it’s stuff that we don’t pick up on on a Zoom call or in a Facebook group. And those are little tiny clues about people’s personality, about their perception of things.

They help you connect with, like, “Oh, I can tell that girl’s gonna be my girl. You know, I’m gonna go sit next to her. Like I c- I already know she’s my vibe.” Like, you just pick up on that stuff, and it just cr- all of those things layered together create this level of intimacy, like you said, where you’re ready to be like, “Here’s word vomit.

Here’s all of my things. Please help me,” you know? And online, it takes weeks or months of that repetition, and even still, there can be a layer of distraction involved, you know, when we’re online that’s not there in the room. Do you have a moment, I’m sure you have this moment, but or I’m sure you have multiple of these moments, but can you think of a moment from a retreat or a conference that you are just like, “I can’t believe I watched that happen.”

Like, that you were wi- there to witness something so impactful, so … That you’re just like, “I can’t believe that happened in a space that I cultivated.”

Laylee: I have so many of those moments. I hate to … I, like I have so many of those moments. I guess if I could pull one of, like the most recent ones probably is seeing people…

Honestly, for m- as a host, it’s a little bit different. You know, it’s different in that I’m watching people a lot more closely than as an attendee. So as a host, I, I do, I do have the honor of seeing that happen a lot for people. I remember there was one- One moment that I, I mean, I actually cried where I was watching an attendee who had been actually turned away for multiple other events because she has a disability, and they were unable to, like, accommodate.

And I made it happen, and it was my team and I kind of had to put our heads together, and we involved her as well, and she was like, “I’ve always wanted to do this, and I’ve never been able to do this before.” And so it was kind of twofold. One, the first interaction was just really beautiful, and then two, just, like, watching her throughout, throughout the event get to connect with people and get to share that part of her story with those other attendees who then were able to, like, see firsthand.

And my– and, and I could kind of like see the light bulb go off of like, “Oh, this is, like, a human being that I probably in– at some point in my future will need to accommodate for somebody with something similar or even something different, and now I’m able to kind of understand the importance of this.”

And so for me, it was, it was less– I mean, it was very important to see the impact it had on her, but I was even more moved to see the impact it had on the other attendees of like they’re gonna go home now, and they’re going to be hosting things. Because I work with educators, so it’s a little different, right?

Like, I’m, I’m setting people up to go lead their own communities. So I’m able to see these leaders have this first-hand interaction and know I know I’m seeing it in, in real time, that they will not be the person to turn somebody away now. Now they will see that I like, “This, this is something I’m gonna have to figure out,” versus the multiple other hosts in the past that this other– that this attendee had interacted with who have just said, “Sorry, I can’t help you.”

And so that to me was probably– like, that has stayed with me a lot, and I think I’m very– I try very hard to be really intentional about having inclusivity be a huge tenet of my business, and it always has been, obviously. But seeing it happen in real time where other people are, are understanding the importance of it was really, really special to me.

Sabrina: For me, I guess the example I’ll give, and it’s not even a specific example, this is a very general one, but it always gives me chills to see when women get so vulnerable that they cry, and having reciprocal tears on the other side of it too. And I, I say it jokingly, like, somebody always cries at a retreat, and it’s true.

But it’s beautiful because that space has been … It’s so safe that people can, like, put, like, all of the walls are down, and they’re able to not just say, like, “Here’s my surface level problem, but seven layers below that, I actually have this deeper problem,” and it causes tears. And then to see the reciprocal tears from the group of women stepping in and showing up and saying, “I feel the same way,” or, “I’ve dealt with that too,” or whatever.

And again, it’s, yeah, we’re solving, like, really top level problems, but the stuff underneath is the stuff that impacts the most and carries forward in their life, whether or not they continue being a photographer or doing something else or setting their business down altogether. And it- it’s that, like, lasting impact of being in a room because, again, of that level of intimacy.

And that always … It surprises me, but it doesn’t. You know? It’s like I know it’s gonna happen every time, but every time it happens, I’m so honored to have witnessed it. It’s just such a beautiful part of in-person stuff that I love, and I’m sure you get that too at, at your retreats and your conferences, all the tears.

Yeah.

Laylee: Oh, 100%. I mean, like, I, I actually stock tissues in every single welcome bag at all t- … Like, a little travel tissue. I’m like, “Listen, I don’t know who’s gonna need this, but somebody’s gonna need it,” so.

Sabrina: Somebody is, for sure. For sure. I love that. So we are obviously on Team go to in-person things. Put yourself out there, meet people, get in the room.

There is a lot of resistance to these things. We know that. We … When we are selling tickets to events or seats in a mastermind or whatever, there’s a lot of resistance, and it comes in all different forms. I would love to know what, what do you hear the most? What do you hear the most of people s- justifying that they can’t go or they’re not for them or whatever?

Laylee: Yeah. It’s almost always financial. Almost always. There’s … I’d say, I’d say it’s probably, like, 85 to 90% financial, and the rest is, like, travel or just time or timing. And, and I get that. Like, I, I really do, and I think that we are in a time where … And it depe- it depends on, like, who’s com- … Like you had said about when you’re a beginner, you have one set of, of- like almost like objections in your way when it comes to financials in that you’re like maybe you’re not making that much money, so you’re like, “I’m not…

I have to be really careful where I put the small amount of money I’m making.” Then as you get more advanced and you start to, and you start to make more money, then you spend it, and maybe you’re not, you’re not gauging what is an actual good fit for you, and so you go to something that kind of burns you a little bit, and you’re like, “Ooh, I didn’t love that.”

Then you’re just really suspicious of everybody, and you’re li- and which, again, been there, done that. I get it. And, and so I think it’s just, it, it comes out of people’s mouths or emails. Like, “Hey, I just don’t have the funds for this.” But it’s so much deeper than that, in that it’s, they say, like 85% of people are saying like, “Hey, I have this financial issue.”

But really it’s, I think, a worry that where you invest it is not going to be wise. And I, I actually like completely support that thought process in that I do 100% think people need to think about if it’s a good fit for them or not. But I think where, where I like to focus is not every host is going to be 100% trustworthy.

But the good ones will, I think, at least, I, like not to be conceited and say that you and I are the good ones, but I know I- knowing you and, and knowing myself, it is in, I always say it is in my benefit for it to be a good fit for the person who’s hesitant. And so I will tell you if it’s not, because I don’t want a negative review.

Like, that would kill me. So I, I need it to be a good fit, and if it’s not a good fit, it’s not gonna be me telling you that it is. It will be like, that, that’ll be on like the person buying the ticket, you know?

Sabrina: I do that all the time when people are asking about the mastermind or a retreat or whatever.

They’re hesitant, and we start a conversation, and I, I tell people all the time, “I will tell you, like you’re not ready for this or you’re too advanced for this or this isn’t gonna be your crowd or whatever.” Because I’m not here to just take your money and walk away. Like I, that’s not, that’s not for me, you know?

But you s- you spoke to a moment ago when you said, you know, not all hosts, not all events are created equal, and, and that is so true. And I actually did a whole podcast episode about that recently, about this trust recession, and I came up against that so much during my most recent mastermind launch of people sharing stories of making big education investments and being burned.

And it just really ticked me off. I mean, I, it got under my skin so bad, not at the people obviously, but like how dare some people ruin it for the rest of us? Like, that is so unfair, and it really just frustrates me, and that’s a whole other conversation for a whole other day. Anyways, that’s a whole thing, but

And, and it makes me really, really sad that people have been burned and don’t want to … That they throw in the towel. They’re like, “No, I don’t wanna make large investments. I don’t want to attend anything.” Because I think they’re really missing out. You know, there’s, yes, there’s a cost to attend these things, and they aren’t cheap.

In-person events are expensive, especially ones that are well done, and the more intimate they are, generally the more expensive they are. But there’s also a cost to not going. You know, there’s a cost to every year telling yourself, “Next year, next year, not this time.” There’s a cost to not trusting yourself.

It’s, uh … And I’m not talking about if you don’t have the money in the bank. I’m talking about if you’ve got the money in the bank, but you don’t trust yourself to make the investment or you’re scared, there’s a cost to that, too. And I, I want to lovingly hug everyone and say, “Are you sure?” You know? “Are you sure that this is not actually fear or there’s not actually something else getting in the way?

Because I can see that this would serve you so well,” you know? But it’s hard, because a lot of people just see the dollar signs, you know, and they, they use that as the ultimate decider, right?

Laylee: I mean, honestly, it’s, it’s funny because … Or it’s, maybe funny is not the right word, but it’s, it’s interesting that I have

Like, my business actually kind of started because I was seeing educators who weren’t delivering on their promises, and I truly believe, I want to believe, I want to believe in my heart and soul that it’s never malicious, that it’s just a lack of training. And so that’s kind of where I started working with other educators, was I was like, “Hey, like, if you’ve got the heart to do it but you’re not deliver- Like, let’s make it work.”

But that doesn’t mean that the result, whether it’s malicious or not, it doesn’t mean that the result doesn’t matter. And as somebody who I’ve, I’ve spent … I actually sadly did the math the other day, and I think there are about $35,000 in the tenure of my business that I have, I would call a, quote-unquote, “loss” in education.

Like, a full loss. And I always like to … I’m a, I’m a silver linings kind of girly, and I like to think, like, “Well, I learned from those. I learned what not to do. I learned, you know, I learned how to treat people. I learned that it’s never worth a s- a dollar amount to make somebody feel the way I felt.” But that was a very expensive lesson to have learned that I probably already knew.

So, like … So that being said, I’m like, I’m totally on your team when it comes to that, that, like, feeling of almost, like, outrage that how dare you do this to people. Um, but I think that’s why it’s so important that people like you and other educators who are doing it right continue on, and to just continue to, like, serve their people so well that it breaks those walls down.

But like you said, that’s the cost on, on the attendee or the student to be able to overcome those and find something that, that pays off. Because when it does pay off, it’s so worth it

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You can grab it now at sabrinagebhart.com/business-reset or check the show notes for the link. What you just said just sparked something, uh, that I’d love your opinion on. Uh, another thing that comes up when I, specifically when I’m launching something, ’cause you know that when we’re in a launch mode, we’re having a lot of conversations with people, way more than normal, right?

And it’s great because we get to hear the struggles and the… It’s great. I love being in conversation with women. But coming off of my most recent launch, the other thing that I really heard was that getting the vibe that people want like a savior. That people are like, “I need somebody to fix everything or to overhaul everything.

I need a magic bullet. I need, I need somebody to come in and save,” right? And when I have conversations with those people, most of the time, I’m gonna put an asterisk next to that, most of the time when I ask them have they done education before, where, you know, when I try and dig in a little bit, I hear that these are people who are like serial investors in education.

And I kinda read between the lines that like you’re starting to carry a little bit of a grudge that like you’ve poured all this money into education and nothing’s, quote, unquote, working, but it makes me wonder, well, what have you been doing, right? Like, I can, I can give you everything I know, but I cannot make you do anything, right?

I can lead you to water. And so I wonder, again, this is slightly off tangent, but while we’re talking about investing in education, I think it’s important that people understand and have the expectation that, yes, you can pay to get in the room, and the room can be fabulous, and it can have the best topics, and the best attendees, and the best experts, and whatever it is that that room is formatted to be, but you still have to show up and do the thing.

You have to be open to receive, and then you also have to take what you receive and do something with it because your host, your guide, your leader, your coach, your whatever word you wanna put there, is not your savior. How do you feel about that? Like, have you seen that as well?

Laylee: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that’s actually, it’s such a common, common theme that I have had.

Like, m- I’ve done multiple podcast episode, like solo episodes on my podcast about it, about the responsibility of the educator versus the responsibility of the client, student, customer, whatever you wanna call them, the, the person who’s learning, right? So there is a shared equal responsibility, and I think both members of the relationship, whether you’re a host, attendee, or coach, client, whatever it is, it’s a two-way street.

And I do think that- I have even entered into seasons of coaching where I’ve hired a coach and I’ve been like, “Please fix it.” And that’s not their job. Like, it is their job to help guide you and to offer suggestions and to analyze situations, but you have to be willing to do the work for the work to work.

Like, it has to be able to, uh, you have to be able to do something for it to show whether it’s gonna work or not. And so, um, I think the same thing when it comes to events. Like I mentioned, the first one I went to, I didn’t do my job as an attendee. I went in … Actually, I went in pretty blind. Like, like I said, it was the first thing I’d ever gone to.

I was still a full-time high school teacher at the time, and photographer. It was a photography conference, and another photographer I knew who used to be a full-time teacher was like, “Go to this.” And I was like, “All right.” So I show up, like, sight unseen and hide in my room for half of it. So, like, I couldn’t be mad at the conference.

Like, I couldn’t be mad at them. They didn’t do anything wrong. They did their job. I hid And not everybody has that self-awareness, and that’s one thing I would encourage anybody who’s listening to do is to just, like, do a gut check. It’s so easy to go online, to go on Instagram or Twitter or Thr- Twitter doesn’t exist anymore.

I’m ancient. X or, like, Threads or whatever and be like, “I see on Threads all the time, like, that, that was, like, the worst thing I’ve ever been to.” And maybe they’re right, but, like, it’s so easy to complain and have everybody validate your bad, ugly, yucky feelings. It’s harder to be self-aware and say, “Where did I drop the ball?”

Or, “Where did they drop the ball?” I’ve joined masterminds that I’ve paid upwards of 10K for where it’s been terrible and it was, it was the educator’s fault, and I’ve paid for a mastermind that wasn’t a good fit, but the coach did everything in their power to make me succeed and I didn’t succeed, but it wasn’t their fault.

It was my fault. So, like, you have to be able to, like, check the nuance of, like, who’s at fault here and, like, be able to be real about that, and that’s, that can be really hard. So I do see that a lot, and it, and it is something that I would encourage everybody to just do a gut check on, like, how much of this was me and how much of the, this was them, you know?

Sabrina: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Let’s talk about going back to resistance and investing and being in the room. W- we’ve talked about the financial side. That’s huge. There’s also a big fear, right? People who work alone, whether they’re photographers or other kinds of creative entrepreneurs, they work in their office at home at their laptop, you know, and putting yourself in a room or in a situation where you’re having to travel to be in a room where you don’t, aren’t gonna know anybody, like, that’s

there’s bravery involved in that, for sure. Even if you’re an extrovert, there’s bravery in that, okay? Walking into … Like, it’s not like we’re little kids in school where this teacher’s gonna usher us in and it’s wholesome and … Like, as adults, it is hard to walk into a room where you don’t know anybody, and so there’s a lot of fear there.

So when we think about fear and, and walking into these spaces where we don’t know anybody, what would you say to somebody who’s newer in business or an introvert who wants to be there? They see these things happening online, and they want them to … They want that for themselves, but they feel like they don’t belong, and so they’re not allowing themselves to pull the trigger and to put themselves in that room.

Laylee: Yeah. Th- listen, like, nobody relates to that more than me I often think to myself, did I start hosting because I am, was so scared of attending? Maybe. Um, but I think, I think a big piece of advice I would give that’s actually, like, something you can do versus a mindset thing, ’cause I think mindset is hard, and I think it’s important, but I do think it’s, it’s less…

It’s l- it’s something you have to work on over time. But let’s say there’s an event that you wanna attend and you’re terrified, and you feel left out, and you feel like you don’t know anybody. I would find a couple people going to that event, and I, I would do the hard thing before you go do the even harder thing.

And I would reach out to them and say, “Hey, I’m going to this. Like, I saw you’re going to this. I’d love to, like, get on a Zoom for a few minute, like cha- like, get to know one another a little bit.” And so that way you have a friendly face. Or if that’s too much of an ask, just follow them on Instagram and start interacting with their stories.

Like, just have some sort of human interaction with another human being who’s going to be there, and that can be your safe space to start. I’m not saying you have to attach yourself to these people the whole time you’re there, but at least then you have a friendly face that’s not just the host. Because we all know, like, let’s say you go to an event, like my conference, I wanna be that for everybody, but there’s 120 people in the room, and one of me.

And so I, I am. Like, I’m there. You’ll never see me hidden. I w- I’m 100% there 100% of the time. But there’s 120 people there, and so I, I, as a host, you know, take it upon myself to make sure everybody has somebody, and I do that in many different ways. But if, if you’re going to something that’s bigger and that doesn’t have that, you kinda have to play the role of, like, I’m gonna have to do the hard, the little, the smaller hard thing first before I do the big hard thing of showing up in a room, and that’s finding your own little comfort zones.

And maybe that takes a couple tries. Maybe the first person you interact with you’re not vibing with, so try again. It’s almost like, maybe my other fellow, like, anxious girlies will get it, but, like, when you find a therapist and you have to try a few therapists before you find one you click with, maybe you have to try a few attendees.

Like, it might take a couple tries, but you can do hard things. So I would say find a comfort before you go.

Sabrina: Yeah. I think that’s a great, a really great suggestion I know my answer to this, but I’m curious what yours is. When we get into the room, somebody’s finally brave enough, they get there, they put themselves in a situation, whatever kind of space it is, what do you think changes first?

Do you think that they change some beliefs about themselves? Do you think it’s business changes that start happening, relational changes? Like, what do you think the first thing to unfold actually is?

Laylee: I think typically the first thing that happens is reflection on self. And so I think it’s less, it’s not even like a necessarily like a, like a change that happens first.

It’s kind of like a mirror is held up. Typically, when people are at events, they are at all times wondering how something applies to them. And so I think it’s kind of like mirroring back, like, “Oh, do I do that or do I do things differently?” And sometimes it can be hard because we tend to be defensive about our own choices.

And so sometimes a change doesn’t happen first because we think like, “Well, that advice is not what I do, so I’m not taking it.” I think once you sit with it, then you start to see changes in self happen, and in, in almost like your own relationship to your own business. And so I would say the very first thing that happens is a reflection.

And then after that, I would say probably through relationship changes, then comes business changes. So it, I… That’s at least like the pattern that I think. What do you think?

Sabrina: Yeah, I agree. I think, um, it’s a lot more personal first. You know, people come for like, “I want the business impact,” right? Um, oftentimes.

I mean, there are obviously all kinds of retreats and conferences. But for you and I, what we’re talking about, they’re coming for business impact, but often that’s the last thing that comes, and all of these other foundational kind of things come first. I actually think when, when I’m thinking about somebody who’s newer, who maybe has never attended something in person before, I think one of the first things, at least for me, was- Being in that room the first time or arriving to that event for the first time, it’s like I finally took myself seriously.

You know what I mean? Like, I was like, I finally took my business seriously. I’m finally showing up. This is not a hobby. Like, I am … And, and so it was a very, like, it was a very core identity shift almost, where I was like, “Okay. No, we’re really doing this.” And there was a level of pride there. And so that was a really deep-rooted thing that changed how I showed up going forward, right?

We talked about some of the moments that we’ve loved to get to participate in, um, in our events. But I would love to know specifically if you’ve got any transformations you want to share as far as somebody showing up scared, nervous, fearful, and then how different they left just in the short amount of time, whether it be two days, three days, whatever, in an event.

What kind of transformations have you seen?

Laylee: Oh my gosh. That has been the coolest thing, honestly. I know there have been … I know there’s … We have people in common who obviously because you’ve come to the last couple years, and seeing people come with, like, one business. It’s … Again, I work with educators, right?

So typically it’s like this is their secondary business is education. But seeing people come with, like, one path and one offer, and then leave with a completely different- Like vision and plan, and then watching them from, from one year to the next. I’ve had people come one year making less than six figures, and this is not an exaggeration, come back the next year a millionaire.

Like a straight up millionaire. And I’m like, listen, I’m not that.

Sabrina: So I’m over here, like …

Laylee: That’s been inspiring and incredible as the host to see, ’cause I’m like, “This means it’s doable,” right? Like this means people could do this. Um, and so that’s been beautiful. I’ve seen people come, not even monetarily, but come with, with one intention and leave with an entirely new path.

Like an entirely new commitment to what it is that they’re doing, and come back feeling like a different person. And to me, that’s ama- The confidence I’ve seen change from day one to day three, even within the week, not even year to year, um, is probably the coolest transformation that I see. Um, and then people leaving and starting their own friend groups and mastermind groups and peer groups, like that they continue on with, has been really probably the most beautiful thing as well.

Sabrina: Yeah. That is definitely my favorite thing as well is, I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen my girls share photos of travels of different parts of the country, and they’re together and they met at something of mine, and I’m like, “I did that,” you know? And it just makes me so happy. It makes my mama heart so happy.

Laylee: Also, I get FOMO then. I’m like, “Wait, why am I not with you?”

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah. I can’t go to everything. Excuse me, why was I not invited?

Laylee: Yeah.

Sabrina: Yeah, exactly. Um, I actually did get invited to something like that, um, earlier this summer. A bunch of my girls traveled in from different states to have like a, like a working weekend together, and it was within an hour of my house, and so they invited me to dinner one night.

And I was just, the whole time I was like, “This is so cool,” you know? It was really, really, really fun. Um, because that’s, when we talk about lasting impact, right? That goes beyond our businesses, beyond … I mean, when you’re making friends, which again, at, like, at our age is not easy, you know? And so it’s, it’s really, really beautiful.

But I too have had many women who have come in thinking they were doing one thing and then completely change a path because they get such a depth of clarity that’s like, “Wait a minute. What am I even doing? I don’t even wanna do this.” And not only for them to have that depth of clarity, but also the bravery to flip the switch and to go in the other direction at the same time is huge.

Is absolutely huge. And so that’s just so fun to watch. And I do think part of that bravery is being bolstered by the people in the room with you, right? It’s so much easier when you’ve got a team of cheerleaders around you saying, “Do it. Do it. Do it,” and giving you ideas and cheering you on and hyping you up, as opposed to if you did have a light bulb moment like that at home alone, how common would it be to just blow it off or to think, “I could not do that”?

To be like, yeah, okay, no. I’m not, I’m not gonna actually do that. Yeah. But being surrounded by pe- like-minded people who see you and understand you and want what’s best for you is, the momentum that you get from that is, is huge. So speaking of momentum, why do you think the growth that we have at an in-person event is so compressed?

Like you said, you can be in an, a virtual online mastermind for months and weeks and weeks and weeks, and it takes forever to get to that level of intimacy, and therefore growth and impact. But in an in-person event, it is just so compressed. Why do you think that is?

Laylee: Um, honestly, I think it’s the commitment to, to the time and the space.

I truly think it is, it is one thing to mull something over for a short period of time versus, like, digging in and finding that clarity because you have dedicated, like, these days to that. So even if you have … Like, let’s say you have a peer group that is just kind of, like, friends chatting on Zoom that are business friends.

I still would tell those people, “Go get an Airbnb for two days and go show up together,” because the amount of change you’ll see in those two days is going to be, like, off the charts compared to what you have on Zoom together. And it’s, I think it’s truly just dedicated, full 100% of your brain power and your attention and your willingness to be 100% open and there for one another It’s just not comparable to showing up online.

You just can’t. Like, there’s, there’s … The difference is insane.

Sabrina: I fully agree with you. Even to your point, talking about, like, the peers. You know, Colie and I get together a couple times a year and have, like, our working weekends together, and we don’t have, like, impactful growth. You know, it’s not like that, but the amount of stuff that we work through together and, like, fine-tune and do is bananas.

It’s absolutely bananas because we have no distractions, and we are locked in. We are locked into what we are doing. We’re helping ideate things back and forth, uh, with one another. Working through troubleshooting and whatever, and it’s just so powerful when you pull yourself away from all of the other distractions and responsibilities that we have.

You know? Even just our other business responsibilities, clients and, and whatnot. You know, just getting out of our inbox every day is huge. So let’s talk to the woman who’s … She’s like, “Okay, girls, I hear you. I’ve been wanting to go to one of your things,” or somebody else’s thing, whatever, whoever’s thing.

You’ve been wanting to go to an in-person thing. You’ve been on the fence for months, maybe you’ve been on the wait list, maybe you’ve heard about it, and you just keep not signing up. What are you gonna tell her?

Laylee: Okay. First and foremost, I’m gonna tell her, “Do you think it would be a good fit for you?” Don’t look at why you could potentially lose things.

I want you to look at, what is this event? What does it seem people are walking away with? Let’s assume it’s not a brand-new thing, right? That means people have already gone. So the people who have gone, what are they saying? How are they walking away? What are they experiencing, and are those the same things you would like to experience or walk away with?

If so, you need to just take a jo- like, you need to make the jump. You need to get yourself where, where you want to be. Because obviously, for me at least, as somebody who is a cautious consumer, I am. I am a cautious consumer. There are things that are on my list and that I’ve looked at time and time again, and every time I’ve looked at them, if I haven’t attended, it’s because I’ve realized, like, I don’t really wanna walk away with what these people are experiencing.

I just have FOMO, and I’m able to say, like, I just … That looked like fun- And it looked interesting, but I don’t want any of the results they’re walking away with. I don’t want any of the experiences they’re talking about. That seems overwhelming to me, or that seems like it’s not going to be a good fit.

And so I don’t, I don’t make that jump. But there are things that I’m like, “Oh, I really… I think if they’re saying that this is what they’ve experienced, that kind of sounds like exactly what I’m looking for.” In which case I would say pull the trigger. You’re never… It’s one of those things where, like, I truly believe the worst in-person things I’ve gone to, if I have made a connection with somebody who also thought it was the worst thing that they’ve gone to, that has been worth what I paid to go to it.

That connection was worth it to me. So it’s very rare, in my opinion, in my honest opinion, it is very rare to walk away from something in person as a complete loss the way that it, the way that I’ve walked away from, like, group programs or coaching programs and called that a loss. You know what I mean?

Like, I haven’t really walked away from anything in person, even if I hated it, being like that, like, I can’t find something good out of that.

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I, and I love how you said thinking about what people are walking away with or what the promise is from the event. I think that’s so important because I do so often see people considering events because of FOMO, because they had a friend that went, or they saw somebody, or they whatever and they

It looked fun and exciting and sexy, and that’s great. But you’re not going to be happy with the experience if you are not served in a way that is important to you. And so it’s really important to look past all of the shiny, pretty, sparkly things and think about, do I actually need this? Do I actually want this?

Super really important. And I’ve had to stop attending events that I genuinely have a blast at because they’re not serving me anymore. I was having fun, but it was business-wise was considered a waste of money because I was just going on a vacation and hanging out with my friends. You know what I mean?

You know, and if you have enough money and you wanna do that, by all means, you go right ahead. But not everything is for you at all seasons, and it’s really important to take a look, like a really hard look at, like, what do I need now? You know, and is this the right thing for me? Okay, my friends. This was such a great chat.

I knew it was going to be. Tell people where they can find you and if you have any rooms that they can get into.

Laylee: Yeah, I mean, you can find me on Instagram at laylee underscore emadi or on my website layleeemadi.com. It’s three Es in a row. I know, it’s annoying. Um, but yeah, we have the Creative Educator Conference next year in 2027.

Sabrina: Yes, ma’am.

Laylee: That’s crazy. That’s crazy that that just came out of my mouth. Uh, so we have the conference, uh, for educators and, um, that’s, that’s my only current place to go. So, um, but if you’re a photographer, I mean, I will say, Sabrina, I’ve had so much FOMO- … looking at your Root to Rise stuff. I’m like, I, I have no business being there and I will, I want to go so badly.

So, so, you know, if you’ve been eyeing it, I can vouch. I’ll vouch for Sabrina as an educator.

Sabrina: Thank you. You’re so sweet. Maybe next summer you can come to summer camp ’cause we had a blast- I want to … and we missed you. I want to

Laylee: so badly. Yeah.

Sabrina: Yeah. I was so sad. Summer camp was a blast, yes. Um, all right, my friend, thank you so much for your time.

This was so great. See you next time. Thanks so much for listening to the Shoot It Straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at sabrinagebhart.com/podcast. Come find me and connect over on the Gram at xo.sabrinagebhart. And if you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you’d hit that subscribe button and leave me a review.

Until next time, my friends.