69: Speaking To Clients On Your Website With Sara Gillis

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How can you create website copy that truly feels like you? In today’s episode, I’m sharing my conversation with copywriter Sara Gillis, which originally aired on her podcast Copywriter On Call. We’re sharing the before and after of my experience working with Sara, and how the language used on your website can be used to connect with your ideal clients. 

This episode originally aired on Copywriter on Call with Sara Gillis.

The Shoot It Straight Podcast is brought to you by Sabrina Gebhardt, photographer and educator. Join us each week as we discuss what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing entrepreneurship and motherhood. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in, yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, Shoot It Straight Podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight

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This episode is brought to you by The Round Table, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way! Every month, you get access to three new pieces of content covering a vast variety of topics from myself and guest speakers. Come join us and get access to the content and private Facebook community!

Review the Show Notes:

Get to know Sabrina (2:13)

Before working with a copywriter (4:32)

Finding your brand voice and offers (6:57)

Showing up online (12:21)

After working with a copywriter (17:38)

Having someone put “you” into words (20:40)

Coaching female entrepreneurs (23:02)

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Review the Transcript:

Sabrina Gebhardt
Welcome back to the shoot straight podcast friends this week I have a really fun episode to share. So a couple of months ago back on my friend, Sarah Gillis, his podcast copywriter on call, I was her guest. And we were talking all about why having great copy on your website is so important, why the language and the words that you use really need to be chosen to connect with your ideal audience. I personally am in a little bit of a unique situation because I speak to two different audiences. I speak to photographers in the education space and I also speak to potential clients in the photography space inside the Dallas Fort Worth area. So my website was a little bit tricky and well, I’m gonna let you in on the secret Sara helped me with it. Our discussion is really good though because you’re able to pull out bits and pieces of things that are really pretty special that need to be a part of your website and the language to make sure that you’re speaking to your ideal clients. I’m bringing the chat over here to shoot it straight because it was such a great episode and I want you to hear it. So let’s dive in. Welcome to the shoot it straight podcast. I’m your host Sabrina Gephardt here I will share an honest take on what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur. while balancing business motherhood and life. myself along with my guests will get vulnerable through honest conversations and relatable stories because we’re willing to go there. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in yet willing to talk about the hard stuff to to shoot it straight podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.

Sara Gillis
Welcome back to another episode of The copywriter oncall podcast. I’m your host Sarah Gillis and I am clacking some anchal hours today with a client of mine who’s also a friend Sabrina Sabrina Gebhardt is a lifestyle family and newborn photographer, a business coach and host of the shoot it straight podcast. Welcome, Sabrina. I’m so glad to have you. Hi, friend.

Sabrina Gebhardt
I’m so excited to be here. Me too.

Sara Gillis
I’m so excited that you are here and chat all about your website project today. Why don’t you start by telling us a little bit more about who you are and what you do and what you love about what you do?

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, so I’m in this interesting position where I have two umbrellas to my business. And so the what I do question, so to speak is a little unique for me, I have been a family and newborn photographer for almost 13 years. And I’m still actively practicing, I still photograph every single week. And I love that part of my job to capture memories and to get to be invited into intimate experiences with my clients. Oftentimes, it’s in the hospital, like 24 hours after their new baby is born, or at home when they’ve welcomed the baby. And that’s just always such a special moment. And it’s such an honor that I get to do that. But then I have this other part of my business where I am a business coach and I coached photographers and female creatives, how to have a business that is sustainable and successful. I want them to make money and do really well and be a leader in the field. But I also want them to have that sustainability piece of having a life and not being in burnout and getting to take care of themselves. And it’s a really interesting balance. So I have all kinds of ways that you can work with me as far as coaching, and then the podcast is kind of like the education thing. It’s little mini coaching episodes. And that’s been really fun. I’ve been doing that for just over a year now.

Sara Gillis
So awesome. Love that. And tell us where you are. And a little bit about you personally, too. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
I’m in Fort Worth, Texas. And let’s see, I’ve got three kids, we are in the season of life where they’re all at different campuses. So I have a high schooler, a middle schooler and an elementary schooler, and everybody’s active in the sports and the social things. And so I’m just an Uber driver that works for free. And I am I’m married to my college sweetheart, we’ve been married for 18 and a half years, which is wild, to me wild to me. And I’ve got two fur babies at home that hopefully won’t interrupt us on our chat today. I’m just doing that mom life and trying to balance the business as well. So I’m right there along with a lot of your listeners. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
that’s what I think makes you so relatable. And such a great educator, and photographer really, because you know what, it’s like you’ve walked the walk, you’re still walking the walk with a lot of your clients, and both on the photography side and the coaching side. So I think that’s wonderful. Let’s start with just chatting a little bit about what you were experiencing before we started working together. So tell me a little bit about how your website felt to you before we connected and what you really wanted it to feel like after we work together. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
so like I said, I’m in this unique position where I’ve got two different very different parts of my business who are targeted to two very different people and different locations. And while I have loved being in the education space, it has been confusing at times in my own brain, I actually like to write content, I like to create things. But when it came to my website and figuring out how to make it speak to two drastically different audiences, I was, yeah, this is too much. It’s too much for my brain. And I needed somebody to come in from the outside, who was seeing what I was doing, and who could learn my personality. And do that. For me. It was just it was too much to be an inside job, if you will, like doing the work on my own thing, trying to wear two different hats. It was just confusing.

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I think that’s so common, especially for people who either balance different niches or like you really straddle both sides of your business. I mean, on the coaching side, you can serve somebody anywhere, right? They can be located anywhere, but obviously, you’re based in Fort Worth. And so those are your photography clients that you want to serve, and so wouldn’t be helpful. If somebody from Canada’s like thing that really wants to fire you, right, even though you love to travel. That’s true. That’s true. Yeah, I think that it’s a challenge that a lot of people can relate to. And you’re right, it can be difficult to have one website hub that speaks to both clients, because you really do have multiple aligned clients that you want to attract. Yeah, it

Sabrina Gebhardt
makes sense. That’s where you came in, you helped me filter through the confusion and the mess and create something that really does speak to two different audiences.

Sara Gillis
I think to that when we were working together, you had your brand voice really nailed down, you knew who you were, you knew who you wanted to attract, you had really solid offers, all of the pieces and parts were there, it was just about marrying the two sides of your business, really into one cohesive spot, whether you are a photography client, or a coaching client, really marrying the two together. And I think that when it comes to website copy in general, having this strong foundation that you have with offers and knowing who you serve, and what niches you are active in what clients you always want to attract and work with. You had such a great understanding of all of that. And it just made the copy process easier. So tell us a little bit about how long it took you to figure out okay, yeah, I know what my offers are, I know who I want to serve and how I want to serve them, whether it’s a full session or a hospital session, like you were talking about. So tell us about that progression in your business to really finding those offers that were solid.

Sabrina Gebhardt
So on the photography side of my business, it was definitely an evolution. When I started 13 years ago, I thought I had to do everything. And I thought I had to serve everyone that went into my inbox or text me or sent me an email, and very quickly learned what I liked and what I didn’t like. And it was probably the three year point in my business when I was willing to say, Okay, I’m going to stop doing certain things, and I’m going to focus on these other things. And it was really scary. Anybody who’s gone through that transition before, it’s really scary to think that you’re going to say no to people that you’re gonna say no to money and hope that other stuff fills in. But it was definitely worth it. Because slowly that first year that I made that change, you started to see a really drastic difference in the inquiries, they started to be what I wanted to do and what I was showing and who I was working with. And over the years since then, there’s been some things that I’ve stopped doing. And then some things that I’ve added doing at the time, hospital photography was literally not a thing. And there were times where I saw birth photographers, and the magic that they create. But I knew that in my season of life, I don’t have the childcare that’s available at the drop of a hat anytime. And so I started to see people share about this first 48 thing. And I thought that’s the way that’s the way that I can do this. And I was one of the first people in our area to do it and had to teach my clients like what it was and why they wanted it. And so that was a really fun addition. And then over the years, I also stopped really photographing clients outside. I don’t like that. And I will say I think it’s because I live in an area that’s not inspiring outdoors. We don’t have mountains, we don’t have ocean, we don’t have anything charming. It’s just like city and super hot. And so when I’m photographing people in the Dallas Fort Worth area, we are in their home or in a studio. And so I’ve been pushing away the outdoor stuff. So it’s definitely been an evolution over time. I will say the opposite is true. In my coaching business. I knew right away who I wanted to serve, who I didn’t want to serve, what I wanted to specialize in and what I was not willing to say I knew that I wanted to teach the business perspective of photography and not the technical side of things. I’ll teach that I knew I wanted to serve women. Sorry guys. And so that was a really immediate, I just knew exactly what I wanted to do there. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
I love that. I think that gives permission for a lot of us to continue evolving, right? You’ve been in business so much longer than I have personally. And I know that my own services and offers has evolved so much just in my three years of business. And I can only imagine that will continue. And that’s okay. Yeah, it’s okay for things to continually evolve. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
exactly. And the thing I really want to say about that is that it’s also okay to stop doing something that’s really working well, that’s what people get afraid of. They’re like, Oh, my gosh, this is my top package. This is the thing that makes me the most money. This is the thing that I’ve quote, unquote, become known for. But if you don’t enjoy it anymore, or it’s not serving you and your season of life, it’s time to say goodbye to that, and hello to something else that will eventually become really successful for your business, it’s okay to let go of something that is your bread and butter, so to speak.

Sara Gillis
It’s so scary to do that. Speaking from experience, I said goodbye to one of my biggest clients in my second year of business. And it was just because I was moving into a different space, I was moving into a different phase of life. And their needs were different, their needs changed, and so did mine. And it can be really scary to say thank you so much for getting me here. But I know you’re not going to get me there. And I’m not going to get you where you want to go. And it can be so hard to say that. But it has been so beautiful to see what comes in that gap.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Exactly, exactly. I think just like you said, the universe rewards you for being brave. And when you can trust your gut and trust your intuition and make that hard choice. It’s literally you have flung the door wide open for the universe to be like, Oh, I got this, I’ve got this covered. You just wait. And you just wait and see what’s coming. It’s really fun. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
I love that so much. So I think that when we were working together on your website, a lot of the pieces and parts of how you are showing up online, were really good and solid. It’s just a matter of matching or aligning your website copy to the way you are already interacting with your clients engaging on social media. And so tell me a little bit about how you were showing up online and how we work together to kind of match that. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
I am a very What You See Is What You Get person, I am an open book, I’m the kind of person that will be at the checkout line at the grocery store. And somebody asked me a question, I’m like, let me tell you all my deep secrets, okay, I, I am willing to put it out there to hold space for people and to be an example. And just to love on humans. And so I don’t hold anything back. And I show up that way too. If you follow me on Instagram, I’ll share it and show it like it is right. And if you’re on my email list, I talk a lot about stuff that’s hard, and frustrating. And I think when it came to my website, I think also this is probably a common thing. People feel like their website has to be more formal. And a little more like, this is quote unquote, officially my website. And so things aren’t as casual or as conversational. I also feel like your website is not a talking head like Instagram can be and so it’s hard to translate how you’re showing up on your Instagram stories into words on a website page. And so that’s where you came in.

Sara Gillis
I think that’s so true. And I always love to say that generic formula, stiff copy doesn’t serve anyone. It doesn’t serve you. And it doesn’t serve your aligned clients. It doesn’t serve the people who you want to bring in. And it doesn’t serve you because nobody’s getting to know each other in that regard. Nobody’s building relationships. Nobody’s feeling seen or understood. Generic and stiff copy just doesn’t help anyone. Right. And so I love that we are in a business world now where like we can leave behind the generic copy the formal, I need to be professional quote unquote, and just be real and real doesn’t have to mean the opposite of professional. It’s just authentic.

Sabrina Gebhardt
That’s so true. Exactly. I feel like in the copy space and also just in the photography industry specifically, it has come so far in 15 years and 20 years, the photography industry used to be such a bro space, like photographers were men, and they did things a certain way and everybody used studio lighting and everybody had a studio and they really did do they were jack of all trades and they would photograph anything that came their way and they had all these professional license and degrees and blah blah blah. And it is just not that way anymore. It has made a really big one ad to be there’s so many power As women and we’re doing things differently, and we’re showing up in the world differently, and websites and coffee and just marketing in general has come with it, right, it has gone away from a stiff formal inbox, bro energy into well, you can also be successful and professional and thrive in this whole other realm. And it’s been really fun to watch.

Sara Gillis
I remember when I started my business in 2020, my dad who’s been in human resources for like, almost his entire career is like, you’re gonna do what now? And I’m like, I’m gonna write website copy for people who are like real online. And he’s What do you mean, the real online? It’s just, he gets it more now. He’s Yeah, you write websites? That’s what you do. But at the beginning, he was like, What do you mean? Are people real online? Is this social media? Are you talking about social media? And when there used to be, I feel like two separate parts of ourselves where we showed up one way on websites, and we showed up another way on social media. And the social media part was, quote, unquote, not professional. Right? And I just feel like that’s just not true anymore. And we’re proving that both sides of us both the business side and the personal side can blend and can really be beautiful in that.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yes, yeah, I love it. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Roundtable, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way. learn practical ways to move your business forward, while finding community and accountability with like minded photographers. Every month, you get access to three new pieces of content over a broad variety of topics. In the past, we have covered topics like pricing, editing, goal setting, website reviews, social media, and videos from me behind the scenes at real sessions, members have also had the opportunity to learn from incredible guest speakers and industry leaders on a huge variety of topics. I pride myself in giving you just enough education every month to keep you growing and moving forward, while not overwhelming you with content. Oh, and the private Facebook community is absolutely incredible. Consider it your space to ask all the things, get all the support and make real life business besties. If you’re ready to join us, you can head over to Sabrina gebhardt.com backslash membership and enroll today. And now back to the episode. Okay,

Sara Gillis
so tell me a little bit about showing up online after your website copy project was complete, you had personality packed copy, it felt a little more polished and a little more like you. So how did that help you reach clients both on the coaching side, and on the photography side.

Sabrina Gebhardt
It’s this weird energy of and I didn’t really expect this. But it was this weird energy of just kind of knowing that where I was showing up everywhere was cohesive, I knew that I was still showing up on Instagram the same way still showing up in email marketing the same way. But if people clicked through to my website, which is the goal, they would be exactly this is exactly what I saw over there. And it was just that like confidence boost of okay, I’m legit, I’m cohesive, people are gonna they see what they get. And my website’s going to match. So that was part of it. The other part of the story is that right before I hired you, I had just done a website to switch. So I had moved from Squarespace to show it. And so my website was completely new. And it felt the perfect timing to have the copy. And the website kind of launched at the same time, because the layout changed. And it really was focused on here’s Sabrina, the educator here, Sabrina the photographer, here’s who she is with both of those things. And it was just a really exciting launch. Finally, I had a home base that spoke to all the things I did who I was and the language was cohesive, it was just really exciting. Because before that it felt very segmented almost depending on one page you landed on, depending on what you know, is what you’d see. And it just didn’t feel right. And so since then, since working together and having a new website and having all the copy done, my website has just continued to tick upwards, slow and steady. That’s how SEO is it’s a slow and steady progression. And so that’s just been really fun and exciting and rewarding to see.

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you mentioned that you switched platforms to that’s a big transition for anyone and honestly pairing the launch of the new design the new template or layout with the copy that’s a beautiful storm and I love to recommend that clients tackle both at once. But even if you don’t, just the opportunity to feel more like yourself in your copy is really a game changer. It can elevate your confidence. Then in ways that you never expected.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, another little fun perk has been that whenever I am writing a caption or an email, or if I’m creating a new sales page for something, I’m able to pull little paragraphs and sentences from coffee that you created and slap them into other things. There’s so many ways to reuse and repurpose all of the amazing words that are on my website now. And so that’s been kind of a fun little perk that I didn’t really expect.

Sara Gillis
Yeah, that’s so fun when clients are able to grab pieces and parts and say, You know what, this actually really works for this promotion I’m running or This really feels like exactly what my clients need to hear today. Right? Love that. That’s awesome. So tell me a little bit about what it’s been like for you to have someone who knows you. But you know, I’m not in your daily life every single moment. So to have somebody capture what you wanted to say, or what you hoped in your heart that your website would emphasize. But you haven’t really been able to say in a way, how has that felt to you to have somebody come in and get to know who you are, get to know your business, and really pull that pull those emotions and pull those into words,

Sabrina Gebhardt
I will say that it’s like working with a wizard. It’s like working with a magician or a wizard, because you go through the prep work that you send out for new clients, which is very thorough and really exciting. But still, I’m like answering questions and saying things and I’ve got a story and whatever. And I’m putting in all the information. And I’m like, I still don’t know how this is gonna work. But okay, I’m filling out the form. And then to see the first draft of the copy, and to read through it and be like, mind blown, I don’t understand how you do that. But it’s so incredible. And this is such a perfect example of outsourcing to somebody who is good at this, and what kind of a difference you get, then when you just try and figure it out and wing it. I also compare it to it when you hire somebody to have your branding done. It’s this, it’s a similar process. It’s a really long intake form and a questionnaire and they’re really getting to know your personality. And then all of a sudden, they show you a proof. And you’re like, I don’t even know how you came to that. But that’s me on paper right there. And letting somebody do what they’re really good at, and show you how they can step into your head to step into your brain. And what comes out of it. It’s just, it’s absolute magic. It’s so so fun. I have no idea how you do it. But it was a really fun process. I love that. Thank

Sara Gillis
you for your kind words. I think one of the reasons I love so much working with photographers is because you have such beautiful imagery, and you make people feel seen through your images through your lens. And that’s always my goal with copy whether it’s attracting an ideal client or really just speaking to speaking words to your story. It’s about being seen and about being understood. And so I love the marriage of photos that do that with copy that does that. Yeah. So I have been your copywriter, and you have also been my coach. And so I would love to chat a little bit about what that has looked like for your business, and what’s coming up for you in terms of coaching that you would love to share with our audience.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, so I have all the coaching. I have a self study course for photographers, I’ve got a membership that you are in and the membership is just this fun, little monthly. It’s just the best community ever. And then I think the best way to work with me is through my mastermind. It’s called route to rise and it’s a four month experience. It is four months of weekly calls. And we go through a book a month together. And we have guest teachers every month and I do coaching on specific topics. It is a really unique container. Because the focus is not only on your business, I like to say it is business development meets personal development, through the experience. There’s one on one Voxer hours all week every week. And there’s all these calls and we get to like real heart issues that people don’t realize are married to business issues. If you’ve got boundary issues in your personal life, you have boundary issues in your business, if you have mindset struggles in your personal life, they’re carrying over into your business. And so we address all of that in the program. It’s kind of like life coaching meets business coaching meets one on one coaching with this great community aspect as well. And my favorite part is that baked into the program, you can choose to attend the retreat, and it’s three days in person and we photograph sessions together and we do portfolio reviews and headshots and we eat well and it’s such a luxury weekend. So the women that have gone through this program have had the most unbelievable transformations not just in their business, but huge transformations in their personal life. Nathan, how they show up in the world. And it has just been such an honor and a joy to do it. It’s something I thought about for years, and I sat on and I just wasn’t sure. And then mid to late 2021, when the pandemic was kind of settling down, and people were getting together again, I felt a nudge that I was like, It’s time time to birth this. And Sara, I will tell you that it’s like when the retreat is over, the girls leave, and I shut the door on the last person, and I literally weep. I weep every time. And I’m not a crier, I am not a crier. But I just, it is like a full body weep in gratitude that I get to do this. And I tell people, it feels almost religious to me that like I am so certain I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. So anyways, the next round of that actually opens today. And the 2024 run is going to be early January to early May. And we are going to be in Florida for the retreat this year. So it’s going to be absolutely incredible. We’re going to shoot a session on the beach will shoot an in home session, and then our guest educator at the retreat is going to have a branding focus. So we’re going to shoot a branding session at the retreat. So the lineup of speakers is incredible. The books are incredible. This will be the fourth run of the program. And I’m really excited to see who jumps in and who’s ready to commit to some massive change in their business and in their life for 20/24. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
I love that so much as somebody who wrote copy for you, but also participated in a previous run of this program. It is so unique, not only to combine the business side with the personal side, but to write copy that really marries both. But then also to experience it in person as well to be a participant and see the copy that we collaborated on come to life and be made real is such a unique experience. But gosh, if you are looking for accountability, this is the place to go. This is the program you need. Well, thanks.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, it’s really fabulous. Obviously, you Sarah, you did not attend the retreat, because not being a photographer, you would have had a lot of downtime. Right? So Sarah participated in just an online only seat, which there are those available for people who can’t or don’t want to travel to the retreat and and she’s still got the whole full experience. She just skipped the little weekend that was kind of in the middle. So it’s a really unique program and a unique container. And it has evolved slightly every time we’ve done it for the better, right? It has just gotten better and better. And part of that as like we talked about earlier, the farther I get into coaching, the better I see the needs of women, I’m able to fine tune things to really hold space for them and to be able to lift them up in the best capacity possible. So it is absolutely my favorite thing that I do. Yeah, so I love it.

Sara Gillis
I am a proud affiliate of this program. Can’t wait to share a little more with you guys about that. But thank you so much for joining me today, my friend. I’m so grateful for you. And I’m so excited that you are happy and pleased with your website project. Yes,

Sabrina Gebhardt
this has been so this has been such a fun chat, my friend. Thank you. And yes, I’m so happy with my copy that I literally don’t even touch it. I’m like it’s perfect. Don’t touch anything. And anytime I have to anytime I do have to create something new, I ping you and I’m like okay, I need your help because it needs to match all the other good stuff. So it’s been such a great experience. Absolutely. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
I appreciate that. So I am sending a big Virtual hug to Sabrina. It’s for joining me today on the podcast. Again if you are seeking group accountability, and one on one coaching merged together the route to rise mastermind and retreat is for you. spots are limited both for retreat seats and for online only seats so you want to act fast. I will have the link for you in the show notes. But you can use the code Sarah G for $150 off. Super excited. All right. As always, thanks so much for listening everybody and this is your copywriter on CO signing off.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Thanks so much for listening to the shoot it straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at Sabrina gebhardt.com backslash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gebhart photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review. Until next time, my friends shoot it straight.

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