70: Cultivating Confidence With Annemie Tonken

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70: Cultivating Confidence With Annemie Tonken 3

How can you cultivate confidence in yourself and your business? In today’s episode, I’m sharing my conversation with Annemie Tonken, which originally aired on her podcast This Can’t Be That Hard. We’re diving into discussions about imposter syndrome, raising prices, and investing in education, all to raise your confidence and grow your business. 

This episode originally aired on This Can’t Be That Hard with Annemie Tonken.

The Shoot It Straight Podcast is brought to you by Sabrina Gebhardt, photographer and educator. Join us each week as we discuss what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing entrepreneurship and motherhood. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in, yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, Shoot It Straight Podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight

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This episode is brought to you by The Round Table, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way! Every month, you get access to three new pieces of content covering a vast variety of topics from myself and guest speakers. Come join us and get access to the content and private Facebook community!

Review the Show Notes:

Get to know Sabrina (2:54)

The influence of confidence in Sabrina’s career (7:29)

Investing in education and gaining confidence (9:33)

Learning to say “no” and to raise your prices (12:03)

Can you be overly confident in your business? (20:13)

Building up your own confidence (26:45)

Connect with Sabrina (33:49)

Connect with Annemie

Website

Podcast

Episode Links:

Episode 8: Elevate with Education with Annemie Tonkin

Episode 67: Guest Annemie Tonkin: When Things Are Slow

The Round Table

Beyond Burnout Freebie

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70: Cultivating Confidence With Annemie Tonken 4

Review the Transcript:

Sabrina Gebhardt
Welcome back to the shoot it straight podcast my friends. Today’s episode is really one of my favorites. This is a chat that I had with my great friend on me Tonkin. You’ve heard her on the podcast several times before. And well, this was actually a chat that we had a few months ago back on autonomies podcast. And this is a conversation all about how to cultivate confidence. This is something that I think all creatives and photographers struggle with from time to time. And well, it’s just a really great chat about what this can look like how this can manifest and what to do about it. So if you have ever found yourself struggling with impostor syndrome, struggling with feeling confident in your work and in your business, this is a great chat for you to listen to. So let’s get started. Welcome to the shoot it straight podcast. I’m your host, Sabrina Gephardt. Here I will share an honest take on what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur. while balancing business motherhood and life. myself along with my guests will get vulnerable through honest conversations and relatable stories because we’re willing to go there. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in yet willing to talk about the hard stuff to to shoot it straight podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.

Annemie Tonken
Sabrina Gebhart Welcome back to this can’t be that hard. How are you today?

Sabrina Gebhardt
I’m so good. I’m so glad to be here. I always love chatting with you.

Annemie Tonken
I know. And I’m super excited about today’s topic, because I feel like this is one that somehow in over 200 episodes I haven’t really dedicated a full episode to even though it is truly one of the things that when I think about what has made a difference in my business, what has made me and I’m putting this in air quotes, but successful where some of my peers who are very talented photographers have not been successful. You know, this is one of those things. And so I’m really excited to chat with you about it. I said in the intro that I got inspired for this particular topic by listening to your amazing podcast, but you did an episode back in I think it was October called the eight things that have made a big impact. And I’m always curious to like, hear what other people’s you know, Oh, is there a particular system or a piece of software and you did like one little nod to software. But other than that I loved that episode, because I felt like it was more wasn’t like I don’t want to say that it was like whoo, mindset stuff. But they were kind of broad strategies that anyone has access to. And one that really caught my attention was this topic of confidence. So I’m really excited to dive in, if anyone hasn’t caught either your podcast or met you or come across you elsewhere or heard me interview you before because I think this is the fourth time that I’ve had you on the show. I think so there have been a few. So for those people, why don’t you do a quick introduction and let everybody know who you are. Yeah.

Sabrina Gebhardt
My name is Sabrina Gebhardt, I am a lifestyle family and newborn photographer out of Fort Worth, Texas, I’ve been in business for more than 12 years. And for the past half of that I have been in education. So I love business coaching. I love leading photographers and women creatives. And you touched on the Wu mindset stuff that really is my jam. I love the organization and the systems and the automation and the intention. But all of my teaching has that base to it that base of like really starting with like the hard work and building from there. So I have a podcast, as you mentioned, it’s called shoot it straight. And it’s still a baby. It’s still within its first year, but I’m loving that process. So there you have it.

Annemie Tonken
Yeah. Well, and it’s funny because I think sometimes I avoid the, the Woo, because I personally have this tendency to if somebody leans too far into that too fast. I’m like, I think we’re you know, I think that there are practical, actionable kind of steps to to making the strength strides. However, like, let’s be real, there is so much mindset involved in all of the things that you have to do, even if that mindset is just I am committing to myself and my business that I’m going to show up and I’m going to do the work I’m going to spend the time and like go through the frustrating process of like, I don’t know, learning this new piece of software, you know, maybe that’s not something that you you’re in your heart of hearts, like you’re just itching to do maybe that’s not your jam, but in order to like take those steps and make that next step. You have to carve out that time and so that you know There is a mindset piece to almost every kind of practical step that you can take. So it’s not that I don’t recognize that. I

Sabrina Gebhardt
love that because, you know, I’m definitely not of the if I just sit and manifest it into the universe, all the success will be mine. You know, me, I am extremely practical minded. But over over the course of my career, I have realized and really leaned into, if I’m getting stuck on practical steps, or not seeing the growth I want, there’s something deeper happening. And so really, really focusing on like, the heart work, the mindset work, and then building from there, like, Okay, so now I’ve worked on that, what practical steps do I need to take to actually move forward?

Annemie Tonken
Right? Yep. Yeah, so there you have it exactly. And I do feel like confidence is one of those funny, it kind of bridges that gap, right? Because it’s not manifestation, it’s not, you know, we’re not burning sage to try and like clear the air. And like nothing wrong with any of that stuff, it’s just a matter of getting it to taking it from the sort of metaphysical to the physical. And I feel like confidence is one of those things that it’s, it’s sneaky, right? We can go into a, I don’t know, a new process, or a new piece of software or a like raising our prices, we can intellectually go through that exercise and sort of put that into place in our business. But if we don’t have the confidence to back it up, like, let’s use that raising your prices example, if you run your numbers, and you say, Okay, I need to and then you say and I want my business, I only want to take on five clients a month or something like that. So therefore, I have to raise my prices, by 50%, in order to achieve the, you know, make the amount of money that I need and want to make, that’s all great and fine on paper. And then when that first client gets in touch and says, Hi, I’d like to book you, you have to then turn around and sell those new prices, you have to say that with confidence and own that and sort of step up into that space, where you are now a photographer who charges 50% More than you did before, which makes a huge difference. Let’s, let’s kind of start with what I’m gonna, I’m gonna ask you to reach back in your brain and talk a little bit about the way that you feel like confidence has influenced your own career trajectory, and the way that your photography business has run, kind

Sabrina Gebhardt
of what you alluded to, I really do feel like confidence is the underlying or can be the underlying issue to almost any problem you’re having. Okay, pricing boundaries, your schedule, the kind of work that you’re doing, the way that you’re projecting yourself marketing. I mean, literally, you could peel back the layers if you’re struggling in any one specific area and get to the bottom of it. And confidence is your problem, or lack thereof. And I for sure saw that in my own business. The first few years I was in business, I was laughably undercharged, I mean, hilariously so and saying yes to everything, because I didn’t have the confidence to say no to anyone who didn’t have the confidence to say that I want to focus on this type of photography, right? So I was doing everything had zero boundaries, which is, again, a people pleasing problem, which is a confidence problem. And it was just a hot mess. I was very lucky with air quotes that my business took off immediately. And part of that is I live in a big city. It was the season of life. We were in, like all of our friends had little kids, and we’re having babies. And so I automatically had all these handpicked clients. So I was never struggling to find people to work with. But I was immediately drowning. I went from zero to drowning, and just almost overnight, and I had zero confidence. You know, maybe I had enough confidence to say, I’m going to be a professional and go into business. And then that’s where it stopped. Right? You know. And it was really, really hard. It was really hard that led straight to burnout and questioning everything and wanting to just burn it all down real fast.

Annemie Tonken
And so do you remember and I’m putting you on the spot here, but do you remember what it was that helped you turn the corner in terms of coming from a place of I don’t want to say no to anything. I don’t want to charge more than I’m currently charging whatever like what brought you to that point where you were able to kind of step into that more confident space. So

Sabrina Gebhardt
I don’t want to jump too far ahead into our conversation but It’s my favorite answer for everything. And it was I invested in education. And I invested really big in education so that I immediately had somebody on my side who was telling me this is normal. This is great. This is tracking well, you need help over here. It, it was literally like having an easy button, fast tracking me into the confidence zone. And it made all of the difference in the world. Because at that point, I went from being this lonely entrepreneur who was afraid to make friends with local photographers and afraid to, you know, I didn’t want to step on anybody’s toes. I didn’t want anybody to judge me, it was all this huge, ugly mind story, right? And which all came from lack of confidence. And then all of a sudden, when I had this intimate group of women that I’ve met from a workshop and our our mentor, all of a sudden, I had a cheering squad, and I had people to talk to and to realize, like, this is normal, and I’m not alone. And I’m doing this really well. And, and all these things that was the game changer.

Annemie Tonken
Yeah, I mean, it really, if that confidence doesn’t come 100% naturally from within. And I think that you and I know, we’re both Enneagram threes, I think we’re both relatively confident people in the world. But as a business owner, especially as a new business owner, but you know, a solopreneur like, there’s no prescribed way to run a photography business. Even if you went to college, and studied photography, almost everybody I know who did that says, Yeah, that’s fine. I’m confident in how to use my camera. Right? It’s important, but um, but like, that doesn’t necessarily tell them how to how to run a business, how to set their prices, how to communicate those prices, like all that sort of stuff still requires, you have to set a course and kind of follow that path. And if you’re trying to do it all by yourself, chances are even the most confident among us will have some amount of impostor syndrome or like self doubt. So I feel like there are multiple areas in your business where confidence can be really important and, and to your point can be sort of the lack of confidence can be the root of problems. So there’s the initial impression that people get of your business, the way that you talk about the work that you do the way that if they reach out to you and say, you know, like you’re talking about at the beginning of your business, you never said no to any kind of work. How do you feel like that comes across to people? And what do you think it tells people when they get in touch with you, and you’re just like, Yeah, whatever you want. This

Sabrina Gebhardt
is something that I’m crazy passionate about, the more confident you can appear, even if you’re like faking it until you make it okay, the more confident you can appear. And the more you can set intention and set expectations and really lead your clients through the process from inquiry to after, the more professional you appear, the more respect you have, and the more they are hands off. Okay, so I feel like so many new photographers who are really lacking in all of those steps, they’re the ones that are dealing with the crazy picky clients who will ask for all these insane things, and who try and direct the session and who try and put themselves in the driver’s seat, where and that’s a lack of confidence. That’s because the photographer has not taken the reins from the beginning, set these expectations explained, this is what I do. This is how it’s gonna go, this is what I cost. This is what you can expect the whole way. Like, you have to have the confidence to take control. That is what shows your clients that you are a professional, you are going to care for them. Well, they can sit back and enjoy the process because you’ve got this.

Annemie Tonken
Yeah, when I first started in business, I was doing weddings as well as family photography. And I remember very clearly in the beginning beginning I took I don’t know if five or six weddings that were I was charging less. I think it was less than $1,000 because I was just starting. And I and I never second shot for anybody. I mean, I’d really showed up and was like, Okay, let’s try this wedding photography thing. I don’t necessarily recommend that but I saw I was charging a lot less. And then relatively quickly. I said, Okay, I’ve got my portfolio, I’m ready to go and I jumped up into much more sustainable pricing. And it was like night and day, the way that I was being received by my clients. So in some ways I felt like even just the jump in price made them defer to me, trust me more sort assume that I knew what I was doing. Whereas prior to that, and these were actually all of them were lovely clients, like I didn’t, they were mostly kind of friends or friends of friends who knew that I was trying to get into wedding photography. So they were all very supportive. But it was, it was a very different and I wouldn’t call it a power dynamic. But that’s not to say like, it wasn’t, we weren’t armwrestling. But it was the way it’s like a perpetual or like a self fulfilling prophecy, where they assumed that I didn’t know what I was doing. So I felt like I didn’t know what I was doing. So I didn’t do as well. And as soon as that changed, it was like all the other dominoes fell into place.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, exactly. And if you look at, you know, not so much a wedding photographer, but a family photographer, or some sort of repeat annual client, if they come into your world, under the assumption that they have to take control, you don’t know what you’re doing, you have no confidence, the relationship is going to stay that way, because that’s the way it started. And then you’re going to be constantly battling these wrong expectations that were set from the beginning, right, yeah, ends up just being like a client you dread working with, you know, and that’s unfortunate. That’s unfortunate for everybody. But I do agree with you that that price has a big piece is a big piece of that puzzle, which there’s confidence to that right to being able to raise your prices. But I was talking to a student just the other day, who’s been having all of these struggles with different clients this year, and all these crazy requests they’re making, and she’s very talented. She’s been in business for several years. And I told her, I was like, it’s time to raise your prices, you got to get out of whatever price bracket you’re in, you know, that is a red flashing light. Yeah,

Annemie Tonken
for sure. And you know, it’s funny, because, of course, one of the big bits of pushback that I get when I talk to somebody, and we come to the conclusion that they need to raise their prices, they’ve run their numbers, like, it’s all there in black and white. And they’re still struggling with that, because they’re like, I am so sad to lose these clients that I’ve been working with. And I think that this is a really great reminder that I’m losing a client, you know, of course, we do come to like some of the people that we work with, or you know, feel attached to them in some way, shape or form. There is nothing to say that you can’t maintain some kind of a relationship with someone absolute, if they’re not ready to make that switch with you. Because they they’re in your mind, in their minds, rather, the value of your work and working with you is stuck in this lower place. It is going to behoove you the quality of your work, you’re like everything about that relationship will be better, if you part ways and kind of coming to that mine space, like being able to accept that I think is a huge piece in building your confidence to raise your prices.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as women we tie, you know what people think of us to our business, there’s all there’s a mess in our brain, right? It’s like, I want them to like me, I want to be a good person, I want to still be friends. And then you’re also trying to run a business and like those two are totally separate things. Yeah. Just because a client who you kind of liked walks away because you’ve raised your prices or for whatever other reason, has nothing to do with you. You know, and having the confidence to know that like you are you’re still human, you can still run into them at the grocery store or at a football game or whatever and like there’s no hard feelings, this is business. This is absolutely business and it is okay for them to choose to work with somebody else. It is not a knock on you your work your confidence. It’s it’s their choice, and their choice has nothing to do with you, like you have no control over their choice. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Roundtable, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way. learn practical ways to move your business forward while finding community and accountability with like minded photographers. Every month you get access to three new pieces of content over a broad variety of topics. In the past, we have covered topics like pricing, editing, goal setting, website reviews, social media and videos from me behind the scenes at real sessions. Members have also had the opportunity to learn from incredible guest speakers and industry leaders on a huge variety of topics. I pride myself in giving you just enough education every month to keep you growing and moving forward while not overwhelming you with content. Oh and the private Facebook community is absolutely incredible. Consider it your space to ask all the things get all the support and make real life the Business besties. If you’re ready to join us, you can head over to Sabrina gebhardt.com backslash membership and enroll today. And now back to the episode.

Annemie Tonken
All right, so I feel like these are all really great cases for working on your confidence. But what about the thing that I think that some people worry about, which is falling into a place of like, is there such thing as being overconfident in your business? Because certainly, in your personal life, there may be instances where making a really fast decision isn’t a great thing to do, or just moving forward without, you know confidently without necessarily knowing all the different permutations that that could be a problem. But what about in business? Do you think that there is such thing as overconfidence?

Sabrina Gebhardt
Um, so my first thought when you ask that was when I think of someone who’s overconfident, I think of somebody who’s cocky and like, not nice to be around, you know, and of course, my brain automatically goes to a male. Which is funny, and no, I’m, you know, I don’t mean to dog on the guys. But, um, so if you were talking about personality wise, I don’t think there’s, I don’t think you can be too confident in your work and who you are and what you do. But the way you treat people, you know, and when you think about, like personal relationships, or business relationships, somebody who’s not willing to see the other side of the story, or willing to bend a little if things are hard, you know, like, for example, if you have a really firm reschedule policy, right, that’s great. I want you to have a firm reschedule policy and a boundary to protect yourself. But stuff happens, you know what I mean, and there’s definitely times to hear their story and show grace and you know, change and bend or whatever, and so not being so stuck in your ways. But the other part of that, like you said, is making decisions, right, I definitely think you could be too confident and making decisions, there is something to be said about pausing on your idea, making sure that it makes sense for your audience for where you want to go. One thing I like to talk about is we get so distracted in the world of social media, and like seeing what everybody else is doing. And as creatives, we can really be distracted by like, Oh, that’s a really great idea, I should, I should cherry pick that and throw it into my business and see what happens. And if you are just immediately like, oh, that’s absolutely gonna, that’s working for Jane over there, that’s going to work for me, I’m going to like work all night and get it set up and launch it into the world tomorrow. I mean, maybe take a beat, make sure that it really would work for you make sure that you really do want to create this new thing launched this new thing, because sometimes running into things without having intention, all of a sudden you find yourself busier than you want to be or dealing with people you don’t want to deal with. I mean, it sounded good. But you didn’t put any, you didn’t put any planning in place, you didn’t really think about your decision. First. I guess that’s, that’s my thoughts on two sides. I don’t think you can be too confident, personally, as long as you’re kind and all of that. But maybe you could be too confident in your decisions.

Annemie Tonken
Oh, my goodness, I love that. Because it’s like you’re speaking to my soul, I I now have a an online business manager and OBM is one of the people on my team. And when I hired her, my explicit instruction to her was, I am a very fast decision maker. And the thing that gets me into trouble is that I am also 100% committed to honoring my commitments and the things that I say that I’m going to do I always do them in my business. And I was like, and so what ends up happening is, I’ll get all excited about an idea. I’ll put a date on the calendar, I’ll announce it to the world on the podcast, like we’re doing a thing, right? And then and then after that, I’m like, Oh, wait that month, I’m you know, it’s my kid’s birthday. And in my Baba and I all of a sudden buried in work. Yeah, and have, in a couple of instances really painted myself into like a very miserable corner. So when I hired her, I was like, your job is to be the filter. Yes, I’m gonna bring all these ideas to you. And you’re gonna say great that we’re going to do this in 15 months. Like we’re gonna put this on the calendar for the future when it’s manageable. But when I asked that question, of course, I had my own kind of answer bubbling around in my head, which had to do with and I’ve said this before, coming from a medical background. I think one of the best things for me at the beginning of my business was that I had this even though I had self doubt because I was a new business owner and I was Like, well, you know, I don’t know what I’m doing here. I always told myself that unlike when I was working in the hospital, if I make a mistake here, nobody’s gonna get hurt. Nobody’s gonna bleed out, I can fix it. And there were a couple of situations where like, I screwed up the settings on my camera or like, I didn’t transfer my files, right. And so I went back and reshot the session or whatever, I like, I need it. Right. Right. And so my instinctive answer to that question was like, no, no, there’s really no such thing as being overconfident in your business as long as you’re willing to make it right. But you’re absolutely right. There is such thing as overconfidence, when it comes to kind of over scheduling yourself or getting yourself into a situation where like, you could start to fail to deliver on the promises that you’re making, right. And

Sabrina Gebhardt
I think it’s really important to make sure you have having an overall vision of like, what is important to you, and where you want to go big picture, you know, like, what do you want the next year to look like? What do you want five years from now to look like? And really backing up all these creative ideas to that big picture to make sure it makes sense, kind of like your OBM is doing for you? Sure, that’s a great idea on me, but at that actually does not fit into your plan at all. And I don’t think we need to do that, you know, not every idea needs to be done and needs to be explored. So, yeah,

Annemie Tonken
I mean, it’s kind of like when you’re making art, when you’re creating a photograph, what you leave out is, as you know, that’s as much of a bit of the of the art of the final product as what you include. So Right, exactly. Yeah, that’s so good. That was great. So let’s wrap up by talking a little bit about the practical side to, okay, great confidence sounds great, but I don’t feel it, I don’t have it. What are some concrete action steps for someone who can see the value of building up their confidence a little bit, but just doesn’t feel like they’re there on their own.

Sabrina Gebhardt
So I think the I think the biggest piece of the puzzle is time, unfortunately, the longer you do this, the more confident you will get, the more you pick up your camera, the more confident you are in your settings, the more you work with clients who aren’t friends, right new strangers, the more you are confident in relationships. So that is something that just comes with time and being willing to be uncomfortable until you get there, right. That’s part of the process learning and growing, and it’s not comfortable all the time. And so part of that is like I said earlier, kind of faking it until you make it right. Like put on your competence hat, give yourself a pep talk before your session before your client call, and do the thing. And then the more you do it, the more you’ll realize, Oh, I’m not having to fake it anymore. This really is true. I’ve done this enough times, I know what to expect, and that confidence starts to come. I do think there is part of the competence talk that just because for me, I’ve been in business for 12 years does not mean that I don’t ever slip back into like the imposter syndrome, where my confidence doesn’t start to dip. For sure. It shows sometimes it’s with my work. Sometimes it’s with education, sometimes it’s with whatever story my brain wants to make up, right. And in those instances, really pulling back from what I’m consuming, and kind of keeping my eyes on my own paper, right? Just you know, it can be really easy to look at what you know, the work somebody else is creating be like, Oh, that’s so beautiful. Why doesn’t mine look like that, that’s not a good place to be. And that’s not a good mental space to be in. If you are not struggling with competence, you can look at that and appreciate the beauty without talking down to yourself. But if you are currently in a confident struggle, and you’re looking at it with the oh, she’s better than me, he’s better than me, I can’t do that it’s time to back away. Also remembering when you are looking at other artists around you. You cannot compare apples to oranges, right? I cannot look at this creators work over here who’s been in business twice as long as me who is done all these different things and expect me to be in the same place. Right? You cannot do that. So again, that is a comparison thing. And it really is not good for anybody ever. And then the thing that I alluded to earlier is education. Competence really does come with education for so many reasons. For so many reasons. You have somebody who has been in your shoes who has gotten to the other side, who is giving you tips and tricks and guidance, but who’s also a good coach will also be a cheerleader, and like help help you out with the mindset piece, you know, talk you off the ledge, so to speak. So I think those are the things Is that really can help somebody gain confidence.

Annemie Tonken
Yeah, and I would just add to that last piece, education of all kinds is, I think can help us build our confidence about a particular skill, or about the systems that we use and create, you know, all those kinds of things. It’s helping you shortcut to a place where you know what you’re doing. But if you are, dear listener, someone who is currently feeling like you’re struggling with confidence in what you’re offering, and what you’re doing, I think it would be smart to seek out education, where you do have what Sabrina’s talking about here, where it’s like, you have a little bit of actual interface with the person who’s teaching because there are plenty of online courses out there, where it’s all self guided, and you’re kind of going through on your own, those can be very valuable, for all kinds of different reasons. But if you need the, if you in addition to your skills, and your sort of Arsenal, of of software, and systems and all that sort of stuff, if you also need someone to give you some direct, you know, listening to you feedback, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, look for those mentorship type opportunities, and be ready to spend for them, because they are very valuable, and they are typically pretty costly. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
and they can be really scary. I mean, I remember when that was me when I was like on the fence about it. And I just was like, This is so much money, but I am at a place where I can’t google anymore. And I really feel like I’m struggling a little bit in all the areas and I definitely lacked confidence. That was the first thing and it really, I mean, I say it all the time, it was the game changer. I got it served me in all the different ways and to speak to what you said about the specific online courses. Those can definitely serve you if you’re like, Oh, I’m super confident in the work I’m creating, but I’m horrible with systems or I need help with price or whatever, then that’s where you cherry pick the experience and the course to focus and hone in on the struggle you know you’re having. But if you are struggling across the board, if you’re like I don’t know about my art, I don’t know about my editing, I don’t know about my client experience. I don’t know about my pricing. I don’t know if you’re just in that place, right where it all feels hard. Some sort of in person, whether it’s one on one, a workshop, a retreat, an online mentorship, something where you get that that actual human connection with the coach, is what you want, because you need somebody to hear you to see you to speak to your particular unique situation and help you out of it. Yeah,

Annemie Tonken
because it’s all too easy, even if you go through a course. And it seems like it’s all laid out for you, whatever. It’s very easy to get into that like, well, this may work for somebody else. But I just don’t think it’s going to work for me or I’m going to change it this amount. So having that extra accountability. And the kind of one on one or even group setting type mentoring is going to be super valuable. Yeah, absolutely. So good. I feel like I could continue to talk to you about this for three more hours. Like there’s so much. But thank you so much for joining me to chat about it. This has been super fun. It’s been a while.

Sabrina Gebhardt
I know it has been a while and this is a great. This is a great idea for a topic. Competence is such it’s such a big piece of the puzzle and people struggle with it. Whether they’ve been in business a year or 20 years. Confidence is an issue. It doesn’t get talked about enough for

Annemie Tonken
sure. I was gonna say I think it’s under represented in the in the chatter out there. So good. Sabrina, tell everybody where they can find you and and how they can work with you. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
so my website’s Sabrina gebhardt.com. And I spent a lot of time over on Instagram, Sabrina Gebhardt photography, I have a lot of things and ways you can work with me in education if you liked what I had to say. And almost all of them have an in person or not in person, but like a direct communication with me just I am still in a place where I love to relationship build and really kind of hold hands with my, with my students. So the two, I guess most popular things I do have a mastermind that is it’s a package. It’s a container, right? So it’s got four months of coaching and then an in person retreat built into it. It is super transformational. It is absolutely incredible. It naturally creates this group of like business besties and it is absolutely one of the if not the best thing I’ve ever created. I love it so much. I’m sure that you can have a waitlist dropped into the show notes for that. Yep. And then I have on the flip side, so that’s a huge time commitment. On the flip side, I have have a membership. And it is so fun. It lives in a Facebook group. There’s currently about 50 Women in there. And I like to say that it’s created so that you can consume content without feeling like you’re drowning. Okay, like you’re not drinking from a firehose. So you get three pieces of content a month, and one of them is almost always a teaching for me. So like, you can pop on and ask questions, and we focus on a topic. And then one of them is almost always a guest teacher. So we’re bringing in industry people to talk about things. And it is such a rad community of women who just support each other and cheer each other on and it’s super duper fun. So it’s called the roundtable. Yeah, that

Annemie Tonken
will link all of that in the show notes. So if you’re interested, pick it up. And, and Sabrina, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Thanks so much for listening to the shoot it straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at Sabrina gebhardt.com backslash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gebhart photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review. Until next time, my friends shoot it straight.

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