You know SEO basics, but is it time to level up your website? In today’s episode, I’m talking with Melissa Arlena of Picture Perfect Rankings. We’re diving into mistakes you may be making plus new trends with SEO in 2024.
The Shoot It Straight Podcast is brought to you by Sabrina Gebhardt, photographer and educator. Join us each week as we discuss what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing entrepreneurship and motherhood. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in, yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, Shoot It Straight Podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.
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Review the Show Notes:
2:07 – Meet Melissa
4:12 – Dividing time between two businesses
8:22 – The SEO mistakes you may be making
15:40 – Repurposing your website’s content
18:15 – Your money pages
21:34 – Does every blog post need to be valuable?
23:22 – Refreshing old content
28:33 – Getting started with keyword research
31:17 – Branching out with keywords
34:36 – New SEO rules for 2024
40:50 – How often to update your images
44:26 – Advice for those getting started
48:12 – Rapid-fire questions
Connect with Melissa:
How to set up Google Search Console
Instagram: instagram.com/pictureperfectrankings
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/pictureperfectrankings
Blog: pictureperfectrankings.com/blog
Podcast: pictureperfectrankings.com/photography-podcast
Connect with Sabrina:
Instagram: instagram.com/sabrinagebhardtphotography
Email List: view.flodesk.com/pages/62598e6c69d304440734abfa
The Round Table: sabrinagebhardt.krtra.com/t/0xIncMJL8HXc
Review the Transcript:
Sabrina: On today’s episode of the Shoot It Straight podcast, I have my friend Melissa Arlena, and we are talking about SEO for photographers. But before you hit skip and decide you don’t want to listen to that today, this is not your generic how to get started with SEO episode. I know that the listeners of this podcast are a little bit more advanced than that.
You know, the basics, and that’s why Melissa and I are diving into things that you’re probably doing wrong and what you should do to correct those errors. We’re also talking about a really big shift in the way that Google and SEO are working here in 2024. And I’m telling you, this is such a great episode.
So grab your notebook, grab your pen, and let’s dive in. Welcome to the shoot at straight podcast. I’m your host, Sabrina Gebhardt. Here, I will share an honest take on what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing business, motherhood, and life. Myself, along with my guests, will get vulnerable through honest conversations and relatable stories, because we’re willing to go there.
If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in, yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, we’re The shoot it straight podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.
Welcome back to the shoot it straight podcast. My friends, I’m really excited about today’s guest because well, number one, she’s bringing us some really incredible knowledge that we all need. But also too, I feel like she and I have been orbiting and circling around each other for a couple of years. We have some people in common, but we’ve never actually met and come into contact.
And so this is like our first time getting together. And I kind of feel like based on the people we have in common, This is probably not going to be the only time you’re on the podcast. We’re in my orbit. I feel like this is just the beginning of our relationship. So I’m really excited. Um, and I love, I love that it gives the, this gives us like an excuse to finally connect and to connect our audiences and stuff.
So welcome to the podcast, Melissa. Before we dive in to this episode, introduce yourself to the audience.
Arlena: Yeah. So my name is Melissa Arlena and I am a lifestyle newborn photographer. And then I’ve been doing photography for about 16 years. And over that time I have learned how to use SEO. I started off in weddings.
I learned how to use it then. And then I made the switch to newborns and I had to kind of pivot on that. Um, not to mention I’ve moved my business Twice in the last two, I guess three years now I think is what we’re coming up on. So I’ve had to use SEOA lot just to rebuild everything. And in that time I’ve kind of, you know, become a little bit of an expert in it just because I’m in it all the time, just like you guys.
And so now I kind of have taken that superpower of SEO and am helping other photographers apply it to their websites. I also have a background in it. I did it for 10 years before I did photography. So I learned how to explain to people very technical things in easy to an easy understand way.
Sabrina: I love that and I love hearing when people’s like backstory plays into where they’ve landed.
I think that’s so cool. I really think it’s really special because a lot of times I don’t know about you, but I feel like the female photographer space, a lot of us come from something totally different, right? We had this other career, this like other life, and then whatever brought us into photography got us here.
And then a lot of us have ended up morphing into somewhat of like a separate space. Specialist or an educator or something that ties in to our previous life. And so I think that’s really cool.
Arlena: Yeah. I just, it’s so many like different things. I told my husband the other day, I was like, if I was to go back and tell, you know, like eight year old me some advice or like, don’t do this or do that.
I was like, I don’t think I would change anything because. Yeah. All of those experiences have kind of, it’s like ingredients have gotten put together and there’s no way I would be where I’m at now if I didn’t have all of that.
Sabrina: Yeah, totally. And I, I feel the same way. It’s, you know, it’s one of those things where when you’re in the thick of it, it can feel confusing and like, what am I doing and where am I going?
But then when you take a pause and you look back and you’re like, I see how all those things stair stepped into where I am and where I’m supposed to be. And that’s so incredible. I’m curious, and this is not our conversation today, but before we jump in, I’m so curious, um, because you’re similar to me, you have like two umbrellas to your business name now, the active photographer, and then you’re this educator expert over here in SEO.
Like what percentage are you doing these two things now? Like, do you feel you’re 50, 50, or are you starting to lean one way or the other?
Arlena: I would definitely say on the education side, that’s starting to pick up more. Which is fine. So I still like I just had a newborn session earlier this week. So I’m still actively shooting and pursuing clients and stuff like that.
But you know, it’s kind of getting to that point where I, I love the SEO side of it and I like helping photographers and everything. And so that has taken off. Like we actually, I’ve had that, that thing of, okay, well, they’ve both fallen under my photography umbrella. How do I do it? And we’ve actually Split off the SEO side into its own agency.
And so I have two girls that work for me and like, that’s its own separate business. And I felt like that was a huge thing, but I don’t want to leave photography entirely because I, I want to know, like when people are like, Hey, bookings are down. I’m like, girl, I know it. Like, even though I’m in the number one spot that I want to be for my keywords and stuff, I’m like, yeah, searches are down.
Bookings are down. I feel you. Versus I feel like if I’m out entirely, then we should be like, Oh, well, I don’t know. I don’t know why that’s happening. Versus now I can be like, Oh no, I’m in that trenches. Still.
Sabrina: Yeah. A hundred percent. I’ve had the same thought going through my mind for the last couple of years as my education has really started to pick up of like, well, I mean, that’s where my current passion is pushing me and the ideas I have and the growth I have and what really fuels my fire is coaching women right now.
But I’m like you, I don’t want to leave the trenches because then I feel like I don’t know what’s going on. I can’t be as effective as a coach. I can’t empathize with them. And it does still fuel me creatively in a different way, you know,
Arlena: so I’m definitely not ready to, yeah, this week, like being around the baby and stuff like that.
And it was a membership client. So like, I just saw them for maternity and I know I get to see them in the future. And I, you know, I love that. And I was like, man, I kind of missed this a little bit. Like I want to make sure I stick with that. Oh, but I will say I am able to be pickier about who I work with though
Sabrina: now.
A hundred percent , which let’s be honest, is a really beautiful thing. It is. It is a really, really beautiful thing. Yeah, I’m, so, we are currently recording this episode in mid-July, and this is when everybody’s planning for fall season. And this is the first year that I’m actually planning it totally differently and I’m letting it be, I’m not, I’m not doing a fall push like I have for the past 13 years, which feels a.
A little bit scary in right now today, but I know in my gut that that’s the thing I still will have clients. I still have clients already booked. I still have inquiries coming in, but it’s more of the like repeat stuff and I’m just going to let it be what it is to allow some space for some other things that are coming later in the year and that I’m really excited about.
So it’s like a scary transition, but we’re trusting the process because again, the stair stepping, the layering, like you just have to trust that you’re going where you’re supposed to go. So, yep. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. You’re ready to talk about our actual conversation. Okay. I’m really excited. Uh, we are digging into your expertise of SEO.
I literally audience have my pen and paper ready to go because I know I’m going to get some valuable information from you today. Uh, this is something that is constantly changing and you have to stay on top of it. And I say that and I want to like apologize to the listening audience because I feel like I say that about everything, right?
Like the algorithm is constantly changing. Marketing is constantly changing. The way we sell is constantly changing and it’s true. As a business owner, you have to stay up to date on all the things. The thing you do across the board five years from now is not still working, is not going to work five years from now.
Like you have to constantly learn these things. And so that’s what you’re going to help us with today with SEO and. I think instead of starting with like the super basics, um, I’m going to assume that most of the listening audience has the basics under control. And so I kind of want to jump into the, like the middle, so to speak.
Um, instead of you laying the groundwork, I really am curious. Most of the Shoot It Straight listeners are female creatives. The vast majority are photographers. And so that’s your expertise. That’s who we’re talking to today. What do you see photographers doing wrong? Like what are the mistakes that you see over and over again when it comes to SEO?
Arlena: Yeah. I mean, a big one is going to be using your keyword on every page and every blog post. Um, so not use, not finding enough keywords is kind of a big thing. You know, once you have a keyword that it goes for one page, it doesn’t also go on a blog post. Uh, and so that’s, that’s one of the biggest mistakes.
And that’s why I always tell people like when you’re doing keyword research, you’re not looking for just one keyword. You’re looking for lots of keywords. Like you want to get found for all kinds of things. So that’s probably a big one. Another one, ignoring like alt text and stuff on their images. And I will tell you alt text and file names, Google does scan those because like I had a client, um, she had misspelled something in one of her file names and she was actually coming up for the misspelling in Google search console.
And it took us a while to find out where it was coming from. And then we realized it was only in the file name. So that stuff does get scanned. And I was like, well, that’s proof right there to tell you that Google looks at that kind of stuff. So when you’re looking at your, your alt text and stuff like that.
I always tell people you want to just describe the image and then you want to see if you can work your keyword or a variation into that alt text. So for example, you know, I’ve got an image, let’s say my keyword is Charlottesville newborn photography. Um, I’ve got an image of a baby in a crib. So I’m going to say, all right, swaddled baby laying in crib for, for Charlottesville newborn photography session.
And that’s how I can kind of work it in naturally. So it doesn’t, it doesn’t just say my keyword. Cause that’s a lot of times what people do is just copy and paste their keyword into the alt text. But you really want to describe it a little bit, uh, and then just, and don’t put that, that keyword in every single alt text.
Like you want to put it in some, you know, and I try to work it in naturally, like, and so that’s the way I described it there. Um, but yeah, making sure you’re updating your alt text for images and, and updating your, um, file names. So many times I see dsc001. jpeg as your file name. Right, right. And what I do is in Lightroom, like when I go to export those images out, or even before I deliver the gallery, I rename it right there.
And if I’m renaming it at that point, then everything else down the line is fine. Like maybe I might change a keyword or something, but at least it’s, says something and not just dsc jpeg.
Sabrina: Yeah, I, so I, I do my renaming instead of in the export from Lightroom. I do it in the resize. I still use blog stomp and I do like mass resizing and I have it set on export to rename there with keywords.
Um, so same kind of thing. Like it’s just a cheat. Save you that step later, like give future you the gift of just going ahead and doing it. That makes such a difference. So I love that.
Arlena: Yeah. Uh, another one would be neglecting keywords. So like where we talked about where keywords are getting used on the homepage and then on all kinds of blog posts and stuff.
A lot of times people are finding keywords that don’t have any search volume and they’re using it on their main pages. So that’s like, you’ve got to really do your research. If you’re just kind of throwing keywords up and you don’t know how much, how many people are even searching for that, um, you don’t want to put those on your money pages.
You know, your money pages need to be things that actually get searched. And then the other part with that too is don’t, your contact page doesn’t need a keyword. I’ve seen that before too. So you really want to look at your website and think about which pages are going to be helpful for a user to land on.
And those are the ones you want keywords on. If it’s not helpful for someone to just come onto your website and land on your contact page. So you don’t want that. You don’t want to worry about keywords on that. So think about that when you’re looking at your website, which of these pages are actually going to be helpful.
For a first time user landing on it because even an FAQ page, you don’t need to contact a keyword on that because that’s not a page you want someone to immediately land on. Pricing’s another one. Don’t, don’t put keywords on your pricing pages because then they rank and you’re like, oh shoot, that’s somebody’s first impression.
And I would like to ease them into this. Right, right, right, right. And then another thing, probably the last thing I would say is your file sizes. So this kind of goes back into what we were just talking about with exporting your files and stuff like that. But when you guys are just grabbing something from your portfolio, a full size export, and you’re throwing it on your website, sometimes you are loading a five megabit file.
Now, imagine yourself on your cell phone. With three bars of 5g and you’re downloading a five megabit file. That’s basically what you’re forcing people to do when they try to load your website. And if you have more, like you put a slideshow of a bunch of them, they’re never sticking around. They’re clicking off because no one wants to sit there and wait for that to download.
So you really have to think about what size your images need to be. So otherwise you’re going to lose people and it’s just going to slow your website down. So I always tell people to aim for 72 DPI, not 240 or 300. 240 and 300 are for print for displaying on the web. You don’t need that many pixels. And then I like to aim for around two, 2000 pixels on the long edge for my website and blog.
That’s plenty big enough. Um, if I need to stretch an image across the full screen, then I might go up to like 3000 on the long edge just for that photo, because that’s going to be a larger file size. But let’s say that I’m have, I have a couple of portrait size, you know, portrait orientation photos, like three of them laid out.
They don’t need to be 2000 each. Like those could be like 900 each. So you really want to look at your, your website and say, okay, this does need to be large, but these can be small. And all of that makes a difference when you’re somebody who’s on their cell phone on 5g going, Oh my gosh, is this going to load or not?
Because people are so quick nowadays. If it’s not loading, I’m off onto something else.
Sabrina: Yeah, exactly. I love that. Do you have, and this is putting you on the spot a little bit, but do you have size recommendations if somebody has a video running, like a video that’s behind? Yeah, I don’t. And that
Arlena: is something I want to look up.
Sabrina: I do need
Arlena: to look into that.
Sabrina: I can just remember one other too, but yeah, I’m constantly, not constantly, but lately on the pages I’m building, I’m trying to put in the video features where I can, just because Google likes that, people like that. That’s, you know, It’s where content is today, but I’m always like, this upload size is too large.
And so I’m like, well, what’s it supposed to be? I feel like that’s like hidden information on the internet. And
Arlena: so I need to look at that because a couple of people have asked because videos becoming more popular. Um, and I know for a lot of it, it’s to try not to have the video, like you want to have it embedded on your site.
And not just uploading the file straight to your site. So that’s a big one. But yeah, even with the embedding, like making sure it’s the right orientation and, and the right sizes and stuff. Yeah. I did think of one more thing too on, um, mistakes people are making. And that is blogging 10 blog posts one day and then not blogging again for like three months.
Sabrina: Yes.
Arlena: So the whole purpose of blogging is to create helpful content for your future clients. So you really should be doing that regularly. It doesn’t have to be every single day, but I recommend at least once a week, putting out a blog post. Now, if you sit down and you’re like, I’ve got time on my hands and I’m feeling inspired and you can do 10 blog posts.
Just don’t publish them all at once. Like go ahead and schedule them out. And it’s super easy now. I remember back in the day, you had to get a separate plugin for WordPress to schedule things. So I was so excited when they made that native, but schedule it out one every week for the next 10 weeks. And then like, a thing that I’ve been explaining to people recently too, is like, You can actually create a week’s worth of marketing from one blog post.
Yes. So I have like a little marketing made easy cheat sheet and it will show you how to take that one post and create Instagram, Facebook, newsletter, Google business, like you. And so to me, it’s that if you start with that blog post, it just makes the rest of your week go so much easier. So if you can aim for one a week, now you’re not wondering, what am I going to write in an Instagram caption?
Cause you just go over to your blog post and copy a section of it, throw the images from the blog posts up there and And bam, it’s done. And like, it links back to your current content.
Sabrina: Yeah, I love repurposing content. I feel like it is underutilized. I don’t know why it’s underutilized. It’s so simple. And when I talk about it, like with coaching students or photographer friends, everybody knows that they can do it, but I’m like, but then why aren’t
Arlena: you?
Yeah. And that’s why I have like a checklist. I have like a little where to share blog checklist thing. And that kind of lets you know, once you hit publish now, start going through this checklist of like scheduling all of this stuff out. And with chat GPT now, you know, I’m very big on like, don’t just copy and paste.
But if I Copy my blog post into chat GPT. And I say, create three Instagram captions from this post. You can copy those because you fed it your information. You just walked in and said, Hey, go ahead and just create three Instagram captions. No, don’t do that. But if you’re feeding it your words, absolutely.
Then you can copy and paste that and move that over. And so I think chat GPT has made that really easy, like summarize, you know, here’s a blog post, summarize this for a newsletter. Bam. It’s going to pop it out. You know, like that’s going to make things It’s so much easier for clients when it comes to marketing and everything.
Sabrina: That’s such a great tip. Using it to reward your own words is absolutely a copy paste situation. And I think it’s more okay to copy paste something for Instagram than it is for your website, right? It’s, it’s not, it’s not being housed on a site that you’re owning and all of that. Anyways, that’s a whole nother conversation, but
Arlena: yeah.
And even if you use that same content on Facebook, right? Google business profile, LinkedIn, Instagram posts, stories, reels, all of that. People aren’t going to see it everywhere. I think that’s the other thing we think we’re like, Oh no, no, no. Everything needs to be different because somebody might see it in two places.
I guarantee they’re not. It’s just not happening. Your
Sabrina: mom, your mom and your best friend are
Arlena: the only two that are seeing it and it’s fine. And they don’t care. They’re cheering you on regardless. Right? Exactly. Yeah. My grandmother, she used to tell me, I don’t know how we’ll see you talk about these weddings every week in different ways.
And I’m like, well, grandma, you’re the only one reading it every single week. I was like,
Sabrina: yeah. Thanks. Yeah, I love that. So I’m curious when we are talking, we’ve talked a lot about, you know, the very first thing you said is using the same keyword on everything, not having enough of them, wanting one per page, one per blog posts.
First of all, you said only on your money pages. I’d love to know, what are you defining as the money pages?
Arlena: Um, to me, that’s going to be your home page. And then if you have set up your portfolio as landing pages, those are them. So like when we work with clients, we always recommend that instead of having just a portfolio page, that.
Okay. That has just images on it, you know, so like, Oh, I click on somebody’s newborn and all I see are images. Like that’s not the right type of page for your portfolio page. That was, that’s kind of one of those older S not even SEO things, but older styles, and now people want all the information in one place.
If you think about it on mobile, you know, people are scrolling, they are trained to scroll at this point. So they will scroll down if they have to go and find on your menu. Well, let me click this button and this button and this button, this button. You’re going to start. losing people. Like I know the idea is to get people to click around on your website, but I think searcher intent has changed and how we’re doing things.
And so if you can have all the information on one page, that’s a mom logs into this page while she’s breastfeeding and she’s got one hand to scroll, you know, or whatever on like, Oh, I need to schedule newborn photos. Cause I forgot. You want her to see everything from a little bit about you, about your style, your photos, um, example of your photos, the process of how it works, maybe a little bit of pricing info or how she can get pricing info, FAQs, recent blog posts, like she’s scrolling and then at the end, like, Hey, you’ve hit the bottom, like, let’s do this, like a call to action.
So that type of page needs a keyword. Because that can bring people in. But if your portfolio page just has a hundred images, which for the love of God, please don’t put a hundred images on your portfolio. Narrow that down. I always tell my clients 15 to 18, and then you can have a button that says, if you want to view more, click here, and then you could do something else.
Again, on mobile, when people are scrolling, if you hit more than 15 to 18 images, you’re like, I am in a hell hole. I cannot get out. Like, what do I do? And you’ll lose people that way. So those that your homepage, and then those portfolio landing pages, those are the big ones. And then when it comes to blog posts, It needs to be blog posts that are helpful with good information.
If you are, again, just like your portfolio page, throwing a bunch of images up, writing two sentences about, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I saw the Smith family again, look at their family photos. That’s not one that needs a keyword because no one, No one else besides the Smith family or their mom cares about that photo.
Right.
Sabrina: I’m curious. That’s, that’s another thing that has changed. And like you mentioned with the, the portfolio page that only used to be images, I don’t necessarily think those were ever helpful or appropriate to Google, but we used to be able to get away with them. Yes. Okay. Oh yeah. Now we’re not getting away with those.
Nope. Same thing as the blog posts. That’s like. Here’s, here’s 50 images from a session with three sentences, like those are no longer really doing anything, but I’m curious about this. I know that blog posts need to be helpful. They need to be valuable. The user intent needs to be there. Google is actually reading them and understanding them and knowing is this valuable.
All of that is so important, but I’m wondering when your talent, when you’re saying, okay, let’s aim for one blog post a week. Does it? Every single one need to be that valuable or could you do super valuable, a little lower value, super low, you know, could you like mix it up just so that there’s, is it better to have, you see where I’m going with this.
Yeah. Yeah.
Arlena: And that’s the thing. Cause like now with blog posts, people are like, I got to write a 2000 word blog post. No. And actually in the last Google update that came out, um, there was a Google leak not that long ago where people got their hands on a little bit of the secret sauce, not a lot, but a little bit.
And one of the big things that came up was it said, That the length of your article is not indicative, indicative of search results. Like that’s not going to help. Which I was like, wow. Cause they’ve legit been saying you need to have a certain amount of words and now it turns out you don’t. But I do think you still need to cover the topic.
So let’s say one of your posts is an FAQ post. You could cover an FAQ in two paragraphs, like, and it, as long as it’s helpful and it’s covering the topic, then you should be fine. You may have another post though that is like, you know, a whole pulled together that we call it a cornerstone content post that it’s going to be 2000 words or something or 1500 words or something like that.
I’m not saying you have to do those 1500 ones every week. Cause yes, that will, that will get exhausting. That will tire you out. As long as you are fully covering the topic that the client doesn’t, didn’t have that question and then leaves your website still wondering. So make sure you’re covering it thoroughly, but as long as you’re covering it thoroughly, you can have less words.
So you don’t have, it doesn’t have to be this crazy post. So I would mix things up. Okay.
Sabrina: That’s really good to know because yes, for so long, we’ve been told like it needs to be 500, And it’s like, I can only write so much, you know? Um, so that’s really good. Okay. So similarly, I’m curious for those of us who have been in business for a really long time and have blog posts that go back forever and ever, amen.
When do you see it appropriate to take old content that is still performing really well and like refresh it into something new? Yeah. Like how often do you do that? And like, what are the rules for that to make it effective?
Arlena: Yeah. So what I would do is I would start off with, um, if you don’t have Google search console set up, make sure you set that up.
Um, I do have a video that we can include in the show notes on like how to set that up if you haven’t done it. And then once a month I would go into Google search console and I would And I would look at, there’s a little spot for pages and then from there you can kind of scroll back and see which pages aren’t getting any traffic or aren’t getting any links, any clicks, and then you could look at that.
And if you’re like, well, okay, let me see this blog post here. It’s got good information, but it’s not getting any clicks. Or maybe I don’t like the photos that are in it. Like you can update that stuff. Um, and I would recommend updating it versus like deleting and republishing, especially if it is ranking and you’re just trying to improve the ranking.
If it’s not ranking at all, then maybe you could just delete it and start from scratch. But if you’re on page two and you’re just trying to get to page one, like going in and refreshing that, adding in some more information, maybe changing out the photos. And then, you know, you know, hitting the save button.
So it publishes again. You can change the date if you want to, to be more updates. So it shows up at the top of your blog. Google knows when you initially published published it. So it’s not like you’re tricking the system or anything, but that can be really helpful too, where you’re not having to, cause if you’ve already written an FAQ post on, you know, my favorite location or mini sessions, there’s no point in reinventing the wheel.
Or leaving that post like way back. You can just update that with the latest information and republish it with a sooner date kind of thing. And then the big thing with that comes to, then you can use that for your marketing that’s current and stuff.
Sabrina: I know something I teach them that I do as well is I have a few pages, a few blog posts.
That are really old, that are super high value that I send in addition to my prep guide pre session. So like, I’m like, here’s my prep guide, but also there’s this blog post. It’s got some great tips, blah, blah, blah. And I’ve been sending it for years. And so it’s been getting clicks for years. Do you recommend in that situation, like leave in that baby alone and let it continuing to be clicked or like refreshing it from time to time?
What are your thoughts on that?
Arlena: I would look at what are the what’s the what’s the intent behind it? Are you trying to are you targeting a keyword and you’re trying to get the ranking to raise up because if that’s the case Then I would look at The other content it’s competing with and seeing like, why am I sitting on page two and they’re on page one?
Like, Oh, they have more tips. I have three tips. They have eight tips, you know, like, do I need to add more stuff to it? If that’s the intent, if it’s for ranking, if it’s just one of those that like, and I have a friend in Oahu, my. Podcast cohost. She has a lot of posts that she sends just like you do to clients and stuff.
So for her, she’s not necessarily trying to rank that photo of that post. She just wants to make sure that it’s good information for the client. So she’ll just keep it updated as things change because she doesn’t care about whether it’s ranking or not. It’s just a way of delivering that info to the client in an easy manner.
Sabrina: Today’s episode is brought to you by the round table, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way. In this group, you will learn practical ways to move your business forward while finding community and accountability with like minded photographers.
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As of today, it has close trainings and only continues to grow. It literally holds every training from the very beginning of the membership and not to name drop, but the guest experts that come teach inside this group are industry leaders like Amanda Warfield of Chasing Simple, Maddie Pichon, Coley James, Jade Boyd, and Dawn Richardson of Tech Savvy Creative.
Just to name a few. So yeah, the education is great, but you can’t ignore the community. It is an absolutely incredible group of women just like you. In fact, I’m pretty sure that anyone in the group will tell you that the community is the best part. Consider it your space to ask all the things, get all the support and make real life business besties.
If you’re ready to join us, you can head over to SabrinaGabhart. com backslash membership and enroll today. Now back to the episode. Okay. The other thing that I was going to ask before we move on to kind of our next little section is Um, going back again to not having enough keywords, do you have like a quick, here’s a tip, here’s how I would go about getting started with keyword research or something that maybe people are doing wrong with keyword research?
Arlena: Um, yeah, I would say, so what I recommend is there’s a tool, um, keywords everywhere. That’s what I use. I think it’s like 12 a year. It’s not very much for the year kind of thing. And they give you a bunch of credits and stuff. And with that, you can then go and find out what search volume is. So it actually will install as a Chrome extension.
The only thing that’s annoying is from there on out, unless you turn it off, every time you’re searching for something, it’ll show you how many searches that gets. And you’re like, Oh, I didn’t know leather section. I’ll got that many searches. Okay, cool. Right. So it can be annoying on that, but you get that plugin installed.
And then I always tell people, start with your city, your genre, and then the word photographer or photography and start with those. And then just start seeing what’s the keyword volume on it. And you may find Melissa, none of my local small towns really get anything. And then that I would tell you, well, that’s probably accurate.
Typically it’s the bigger cities that get the most traffic. The smaller cities don’t tend to get as much, so you may have to keep branching out to see What is getting it and keywords everywhere is only going to show you that something has traffic volume. If it gets at least 10 searches a month, every single month, if it gets eight searches this month to next month and 12, the next month, it’s going to still come up as zero.
And you never know, like I’ve, I’ve had clients in places where I targeted like Miami when I was down in South Florida, but all of my clients pretty much came from this little area called Coral Gables. And when I looked at Coral Gables, nobody was looking for a newborn photographer there, but. That’s where 90 percent of my clients came.
And if I got an inquiry from there, I knew I was booking. So even though that got zero searches, according to Google, I still targeted that with a blog post because I knew even if one person a month came in from that, they were going to book, that was like 2, 000. Like, I’m not going to argue with that. Yeah.
Sabrina: Yeah. That’s so I’m in Fort worth, Texas, which the Dallas Fort Worth area is a Metroplex and there’s a zillion little cities in between the two that get lumped in. And so like The big ones are Dallas and Fort Worth, but there’s also all these other things that you could have a post targeted to, you know, for all of those.
So, yeah.
Arlena: And with that near me, searches are coming into play on those.
Sabrina: Yes, exactly. And so for, for your money pages, All of that makes sense. But when you consider talking about writing a blog post a year for all the years that you’re in business, and all of those need to have a different keyword.
Obviously at that point, you’re starting to branch out from just the city genre, photographer, photographer. And is that where you’re starting to creatively think about. Things that are similar to your business or similar to what you’re doing or what, what are your tips for coming up with all of those keywords?
Arlena: Yeah. When it, yeah. For keywords and stuff like that, you start looking at session, you start looking, um, photos actually is getting grouped in with photographer, photography. Some of it, you start thinking about, okay, I’m not necessarily targeting a location. I’m going more broad. Like maybe it’s beach maternity photos or something like that.
And so those will still show for you locally kind of thing, but they may start showing like more broadly. And so, yeah, if you’ve been blogging for a long time and you’ve hit all of, and I would say even hitting those smaller little cities is going to, it’s going to grab some near me searches, but it’s also going to help establish to Google, even if it’s a zero keyword.
Keyword for your, um, for your blog posts. It lets Google know that you serve that area. So not, and those would be the ones, like we were just saying of, if you’re just sharing a two paragraph FAQ, you can totally target a zero volume keyword that’s near you because. It’s, it’s still working and establishing a Google, it could still pick up a near me, but it’s not like I wouldn’t have you do a thousand word post on a keyword with zero traffic volume.
Like I would be like, no, that’s not worth it on that. And so looking beyond that, yeah, just going broader, just newborn photos. How, I think I just had one, I have one that’s like how to prepare for a lifestyle newborn session. And so like, if you look up newborn photos, I think I’m like one of the top five.
And that’s just for the generic newborn photos. I would never have targeted that because that’s like a ridiculous amount of searches. And I’d be like, there’s no way I’m going to rank for it, but I am. And it was really a helpful post for clients. How to prepare for their session that I would send out.
And those were ones that I didn’t really pay too much attention to on the keywords. I had a post, um, actually on the SEO side that we weren’t really sure what keyword we wanted to do for it. Cause it was a podcast episode we transcribed. And so I’m just putting it out there and I’m going to see what Google is showing it for, and then I’ll kind of go through the keywords from there and maybe go back and adjust it.
Cool.
Sabrina: What, um, which plugin are you using in WordPress to rank math? Okay. Do you go for like the hundred or do you go for just like above 75? Oh girl, I cannot get it to a hundred. I can’t either. And it bugs me.
Arlena: So I’m
Sabrina: always like 70 and above. I feel like I’m good. Is that good enough? Or should I be like,
Arlena: I aim for green.
I will say that because anything in the green. I’m Type A on that. But yeah, it, and it has, usually I get kicked on the, um, the AI portion of it, like, you should run our AI tool. And then every time you run it, it tells me I have too many images and not enough links. And I’m like, I’m a photographer man. I’m not gonna take out the images.
So, exactly. I’m like, all right, we’re just gonna ignore that suggestion. So I think the highest I’ve gotten is like around the 90 something and I’m like, whoa, that was good. But no.
Sabrina: Awesome.
Arlena: I think 80, I think once you hit 80, it turns green. I want to say, so if I can get close enough and sometimes I get hit on like the URLs too long and I’m like, Oh, well, it is what it
Sabrina: is.
It is what it is. Yeah. Okay. So you don’t take that too seriously because I’ve always wondered, I’m like, is this not even working if I’m not hitting a hundred? So, okay. Okay, good. That’s really good to know. Now I want to kind of switch gears a little bit. We talked in the introduction about how things are always changing and we have to kind of stay on top of what’s new and what’s happening.
We’ve talked about like common problems and things that photographers are doing wrong. I’m curious. Today, in 2024, are there any new rules or trends that we really needed to know about?
Arlena: Yeah, so the big one we have seen over the last 18 months is this idea of keyword concepts. So, in the old days, you could use Miami newborn photographer on your homepage and Miami newborn photography on like your portfolio page.
And they ranked separately and everything was great. And that’s not how it is anymore. We had to shift what we were doing because we started noticing. If you type in Miami newborn photographer, you’ll see people who are targeting Miami newborn photography in those results and vice versa. Uh, and what’s happening is Google now looks at the searcher intent behind those searches.
So they’ve realized that somebody who is searching for a photographer, photography, and or photos with like location and genre in front. They want the same thing. They want a photographer to take those photos. So in their opinion, like. That is all the same thing, which kind of sucks for us because they just eliminated a bunch of keywords.
And especially too, like if I did AMI FL newborn photographer before, nope, now it would be, so it’d be, you know, it would be the same as all the rest of them. The good thing is though, that means on our pages, Instead of me constantly saying Miami newborn photographer, Miami newborn photographer, I can now say Miami newborn photographer, newborn photographer in Miami, newborn photography, Miami, Miami, newborn photos.
Like now I have this whole like concept of a keyword that like all of these other options that I can use. And then you can make those flow a lot more naturally in your content. So while it’s annoying to kind of lose that we could rank for multiple things. At least now we can make it sound a little bit more natural to our client and stuff so that they can realize, Oh, okay.
This doesn’t sound like an SEO robot wrote everything.
Sabrina: Yeah. Uh, I do see how there’s like a pro and a con there. That is hard. Cause you’re like, Oh man, that’s a bummer. But writing is so much easier because it, that is a hard thing creatives get stuck on. They’re like, I worked so hard in this post. And now you want me to put this robot sentence in it over and over again.
Okay. So that’s good to know. But I, so what I’m curious. The first thing I’m curious about regarding that is all of the things we have on our website currently that are keyworded that way. We need to go and update those and change them.
Arlena: You
Sabrina: want to
Arlena: go and look and see, are they competing? So if you have where you had a page for one and then another page, go look at the term and see which page is ranking higher.
And then you may have to say, okay, the, my homepage is actually hopefully pulling all the traffic for those keywords. So I’m going to leave my homepage as that. And now I’m going to go over and my other page probably isn’t getting shown or it’s not getting shown very often. And now you’re going to want to find a new keyword for that page, which then is, it’s hard.
Cause we used to be able to say, what’s your favorite genre. We’re going to put that on your homepage. And then when we go to that portfolio page, we’ll just use photography instead of photographer or vice versa. And now we’re having to branch out into, you know, maybe it’s just city and then photographer, maybe it’s portrait, maybe it’s lifestyle.
Um, you know, we’re having to look beyond just our normal ones. Uh, I know for me, I actually target Charlottesville photographer where I’m at instead of Charlottesville newborn because 50 people a month search Charlottesville photographer and like, like 20 search Charlottesville newborn photographer. And I was like, I’m not going to target my homepage to something with only 20 searches.
So I had to go a little bit more broad. I can do that here. I talked to a client yesterday, she’s in Phoenix and she’s been targeting Phoenix photographer. And I was like, girl, are you even in the results? And she said, no. And I was like, yeah, that one’s too broad. That one probably gets thousands of searches.
And like, you really, at that point want to find something different. And so, you know, we talked about a couple of different options. that she could niche down a little bit. And I even told her, I said, I would rather you’re ranking page one for a keyword that gets 40 searches a month than ranking page eight for one that gets 3000 because you’re never going to get found on page eight.
Sabrina: Yeah. Is there, is there a sweet spot to look for when you’re thinking about your home pages keyword as far as search?
Arlena: Not really, because it depends on where you are. You know, I, when I was in DC, the keywords I was targeting were like 200 searches a month. And then when I got to South Florida, they were like a hundred and something.
And then I come out here and it’s like 20, if I went with my genre. Um, so I would say, you know, look around and then, you know, kind of figure out what are the different options. If you’re in a smaller city, you just want to find what’s getting a lot of traffic. Like if it’s getting 10, 10 searches, Normally I would say that’s not what I would target, but you know, you get some people who are in the Midwest and like to drive to that larger city is two or three hours.
And at that point you’re like, then be happy with the 10 search one because at least people are searching.
Sabrina: So what you’re saying is look at some different options for your area and then pick the one that makes the most sense relative to what you’re seeing. So like, like your example, the small Midwest areas, 10 might be the best option, the highest search, you know, But if you’re in a huge Metroplex and the highest one is in the thousands, then you need to choose something lower.
Arlena: Yeah. Yeah. I would say that. And the thing is, even if you’re in the Midwest and your, your city gets 10, maybe there’s five other cities around you that also get 10 and you’re targeting those with blog posts or portfolio pages. Well, now you’re at 50 searches a month from those. So like it can add up at that point.
That’s fascinating.
Sabrina: Any other, um, trends or rules that we need to know about that could make a really big difference here in 2024?
Arlena: I don’t think so. I mean, I know Google, the big thing is the helpful content. That’s what Google’s really pushing on, you know, making sure that what you’re putting out there is something that people want to read.
So like I always say with the, the family session, the fall family session, no one cares about the Jones family and their, their annual photos. But if mama Jones looked super fly and she put together the most amazing outfits for everybody, that is something that then you could talk about that. And that becomes a whole lot more interesting for your future clients.
You know, with the helpful content stuff, I get it because it’s all about, you know, getting other people to click on your site and providing, providing the information they’re looking for. Another thing that I think
Sabrina: I know personally I get asked about a lot and we talk about how blog posts are important because it’s constantly pinging with new information that’s valuable for Google to be searching and all of that.
Another thing that I think that you probably believe in too is updating and refreshing your, the images on your website. Not only is it important for our work so that our clients constantly see our best work, but also it’s a way to update the keywords and what Google is searching and tracking. How, give me some tips on how.
Often photographers should be doing that and maybe making that process the most successful for them.
Arlena: Yeah. I would say when it comes to your images and stuff, you know, at least once a quarter, like take a look at them. Uh, I know for me personally, I do lifestyle newborn. There’s not like a lot of trends in there.
Maybe the nursery designs might have a little bit of trends and stuff on them. Um, but sometimes I feel like. What I’m shooting now is just another version of what I shot then. And so I’m not, not as concerned with it, but then on the flip side, my maternity sessions, I went from shooting in fields in Virginia to beaches of Florida to back now being in fields of Virginia.
And so I’ve had to make sure my portfolio has gotten updated. And when I was down in Florida, like as quickly as I could replace the Virginia fields with. With Florida beaches, I was doing that. So I was constantly updating and then turning around. I’m at least able to go back to my old work and just throw that back on there.
But I would say at least once a quarter, like taking a look and deciding, okay, what have, what, what looks out of place? And even with your blog posts and stuff, if you have really good blog posts, that’s a big thing too, because we’ve had clients where we’re like, We’re sharing some of their old blog posts on Google business.
And then they’re like, Oh, I don’t really love those photos, Melissa. And I’m like, okay, then your task is to go update that post because that’s a really great post that you wrote. And I get it that those images are two years old. So that’s another thing. If you’re, if your skill level has changed, if your style has changed, those are all big prompts.
But even just having that refresh of images. So like maybe you keep 70 percent of the images on your page, but you go ahead and update like 30 percent just so that that way you’re telling Google, Hey, this isn’t a stagnant website. There’s new material on here. There’s fresh images. Go check it out. Um, and then as far as the process, I mean, I would think like the ideal process would be every time you have a session and you pick your favorites, that those go into kind of like a marketing folder.
And then that’s the folder you pull from. And I’ve done that where I’ll just, even now when I do blog posts, sometimes I do roundup posts, and so I’m using photos from different sessions. It doesn’t just have to be one session and I’ll just go pull from my favorites and then like, okay, I need five maternity photos.
Let me just go grab five from this favorites folder and use those. So I would, you know, have that folder and then like you were mentioning before you use blogstomp. I use blogstomp. Blogstomp does not exist for everybody else to use anymore. I think it’s storyteller now is what it is. I don’t even know.
Yeah. I don’t even know. So, yeah, but you know, you want to run it through something like that so that it gets it to the right size. Uh, I use the, the plugin, um, JPEG mini. And I actually use that when I export from Lightroom. So it automatically downsizes it when it’s coming out of Lightroom for me. Um, but you can use stuff like that because you want to make sure it’s sized properly, it’s renamed, um, before you, you know, you head off on putting it on your website and everything.
Sabrina: Last, like, serious question. You’re new to the podcast, so you may not know this, but here on this podcast, like when you, when a new listener listens to the introduction, listens to the very first episode, I really love to get to the heart of things. You know, I love to talk all of this very tangible stuff and tips and, and tricks and all that, but I love to get to the heart of things.
Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, Literally the why behind everything I do and who I am and how I coach. Um, and I, I wanna understand the struggles and the mindset drama because as female creative entrepreneurs, there’s a lot of that. You know, there’s, there’s a lot. So when I think about SEO, the most common struggle or mindset issue I see is that photographers often.
or tell themselves that it’s too hard, too complicated. And they like want to wash their hands of it. Right. Um, it’s, it’s almost the P it’s similar is the people who are like, I’m not a math person. I’m not a numbers person, right? I’m not an SEO person. Right. It’s the same thing. They just want to wash their hands of it kind of almost before they’re even willing to try.
So if there’s a woman listening, who’s like nodding her head and she’s like, yeah, that’s me raising my hand. Uh, what kind of advice can you give her to encourage her in this process?
Arlena: So I would recommend you want to find someone who’s going to make the process easy for you. And then you kind of want to go from there and figure out what am I looking for from this?
Because I get it. SEO is complicated. The rules are always changing. I joke around that My job half the time, I feel like with Google is like, here’s a puzzle. We’re not going to tell you what it is, but here’s some pieces. And then halfway through, they’re like, Oh, you don’t need half of those pieces. And the other half now get flipped the other way, by the way, someone might be upside down, go for it.
And I’m just like, what is going on here? So, you know, you want to be focusing on your photography, not minoring in computer science to figure out your website SEO. So you want to look at the different options that are out there. I, we have a range of clients from people who, um, they are gung ho, they want to learn it all themselves.
They’re diving in, they’re going to go for it. Then we have some that they want that extra hand, you know, they want somebody to walk them through it because the thing with SEO is it’s going to help you in the long run. So it’s kind of like taking your medicine. You just got to figure out what’s the best way to take it and it will pay off in, you know, down the line.
Um, like we have, so like I said, we have like some DIY course stuff. We have group coaching, uh, which is where you’re still tackling it yourself because a lot of people want to understand things, but then you get the benefit of like my eyes on your work and that kind of stuff to make sure you’re not missing anything.
I always tell people, cause we have kind of like where they turn in their homework and I’m like, look, you’re not getting graded because I want you to get an A. Like everybody gets a hundred on this. And then the other option too, for some people is they’re like, I just, I don’t want to do this, Melissa. I know it needs to be done, but I don’t want to do it.
Uh, and so for that, we actually have done for you services and stuff like that. So I think the big thing is when you’re looking at SEO, you have to realize it’s going to be part of your marketing. So then you just need to decide. Where do I fall in this? Am I the type that loves tackling this stuff, that wants to tackle it with help?
Or am I the type that’s like, I’m just going to roll back and worry about photography and you take care of getting my website set up, you know, and just decide which type of person you are. But it’s just, it’s not going anywhere. And the best time to get started with your SEO is today. I’m not going to say yesterday, cause then people feel like it’s left out.
It’s kind of like the whole Instagram. Oh, you could get all these followers. If only you had been on Instagram when it first launched, like, I don’t want to tell you guys that, you know, but. If you start today, you’re going to be much further along than if you start six months from now. So just biting the bullet and jumping in there.
Sabrina: Yeah, I love that. And for the listening audience, uh, I love how you said finding the right thing for you where you feel comfortable learning. So listening audience, if you’re listening to Melissa and you’re like, she sounds like my jam. She sounds like somebody I could get down with. Um, I will have links to all the ways you can work with her in the show notes.
Just know that you can work with her. I’m going to direct you to her because obviously she knows what she’s talking about. And she, and you’re talking about it. I love you’re talking about it in a way that is so understandable, which not all, not everybody can do. That’s a hard skill and you do it really, really well.
So, um, I love that. Like I
Arlena: said, 10 years of, uh, of IT. And explaining to people why their computer was broken nicely, politely, and dumbing it down a little bit. Yes. Have, have brought me to this.
Sabrina: I, I love it. And it’s such a great skill that you do have. You are very good at it. I love to end every episode with some kind of fun personality type questions so we can get to know you a little bit better.
So. So first question is what’s your current favorite guilty pleasure?
Arlena: Um, so I would say it’s these like salted caramel chocolates that I’ve gotten. Like they’re in the fridge and the kids are like, Oh, can I have one of those? I’m like, Nope. Those are mommy’s. Those are mommy’s chocolates. No, you may not.
You wouldn’t like those anyways. Yep. Those are mine, but they are delicious. They’re like Saunders or something. And I just like, that’s my, that’s my guilty pleasure. Do you have it like one at the same time every day? Is it like, I have two before bed, which is probably a little too much, but they’re so yummy.
They’re yummy.
Sabrina: Okay, I love that. I love that. Um, what’s the next vacation you have planned?
Arlena: So we’re actually going to do our first family beach vacation over Labor Day, where we’re going to take the kids. We’ve got a beach house that’s like oceanfront. So kind of, I’m excited because it harkens back to my childhood and when we used to go to the beach together.
So my parents are actually coming and my brother for like the first part of the week. So So I’m excited to have like some of my dad’s grilled cheese sandwiches and the kids to like boogie board. We’re going to nag said they’re used to, they’re definitely, this isn’t one of those where it’s like, Oh, you know, it’s the beach.
Okay. Whatever they, we haven’t done the beach, but we have a sailboat. So we’ve, we usually are on the boat and we like travel around, but I think everybody’s excited to stay in one place and like, just, go out to the beach. And like, I was telling about like ghost crabs. They’re like, what are, what’s a ghost crab?
I’m like, oh my gosh, your childhood is, is missing things. I’m so sorry.
Sabrina: Oh my gosh. That’s going to be so fun. Uh, family beach trip is so fun. How old are your kids? They are
Arlena: 11, 10 and
Sabrina: five. Okay. So you’re not going to be, I mean, maybe a little bit with the five year old, but it’s not so much like water danger have to every second, keep an eye on all the humans.
You’re getting to the point where like you could read a book and like, let them play in front of you. And that’s the sweet spot. Truly. That’s the sweet spot where you feel like you’ve made it. Um, many years, we always go to the beach every summer. And for a long time, we always had somebody that was like, We have to lifeguard them and patrol them.
And the beach was not relaxing for the parents, but for the, for the past two years, it’s been like, go play. I’m going to read my book. I’ll be over here when you need me. And that’s like, like you’re winning.
Arlena: This was the first year when we, they went to, we went to a pool while we were on our Chesapeake Bay cruise.
And I was, I told my husband, he was like, are you I was like, no, I have a book and they can all swim and I’m right here and they can play. And I can actually just sit back and read. And I can’t tell you how excited I am. I was like, I feel like I’ve arrived. I was like, he’s 11. It’s taken 11 years to get to this point.
Yes. Yes.
Sabrina: That is, that is a parenting milestone that I feel like is not talked about enough. It’s a really, really fun one. Well, I’m excited for you. Um, I’m curious. So we are at time of reporting, we are midway through 2024. What do you have up your sleeve for maybe later this year or for 2025?
Arlena: Um, so not, I don’t really have anything solid at the moment.
I’m looking right now at like conferences to attend next year. Um, I would love to speak at one, which is funny because like my greatest fear in high school was public speaking. So, so that’ll be crazy.
Sabrina: Okay. You need to pitch the reset conference. Oh, we’ll talk about it. We’ll talk about it. I don’t have a sticky note around off the write it down.
We’ll talk about it when we stop recording, but that would be my recommendation for you there. Um, okay. That’s exciting though. That’s really exciting. I love speaking at conferences. I’m one of those weirdos that like public speaking lights me up. I love it. It is so fun. It’s so fun. Um, and so I’ve done conferences for the past four years and it’s one of, I mean, I just love it so much.
So
Arlena: I feel like getting on podcasts and stuff has been like a star, like the first podcast was actually on a maze from this can’t be that hard. And I thought I was going to like throw up like that morning when it released, I was like, Oh my God, what did I do? But then it’s gotten easier and easier. And I just laugh because I feel like my 11th grade English teacher would be like so proud because she, when she found out that was my fear, she made me like speak in front of the class once a week.
And I was like, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone in their life. Like, what are you doing? And I feel like now I can tell her, like, I’m actually thinking about going up on a stage, which I’m sure I’ll freak out and probably throw up right before, but like the fact that I can even like fathom that I’m like, I’ve come pretty far.
Sabrina: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That’s awesome. But you’re right. Yeah. Podcasting does prepare you in a weird way, even though you’re not like in public. It’s just that flexing that authoritative muscle and like knowing what to talk about and how to keep going and all of that, that, that helps. It’s a huge part of speaking.
So, okay. What is a business tool or a hack that you’re loving right now?
Arlena: Um, so air table and then like chat GPT, of course, I actually just got, um, a mutual friend of ours, Coley James, her air table setup course, because just like she says, I have clients. And all the systems.
Sabrina: Yep. Yep.
Arlena: My husband on our walk this morning, he’s, uh, getting his master’s in data science.
I was like, dude, I’m about to have this tool. It’s going to like pull all this data together. And I feel like you, I’m like geeking out on it. He’s like, what’s the AP? I was like, okay, no, no, no. And that conversation’s over now. I was like, look, you can go look at it later, but I’m just going to tell you the pretty parts and you figure out the rest.
That’s hilarious. You’re like, well, I was excited to talk to you about this, but now that’s over. There you go. I get too technical for people on SEO and he immediately, I was like, Oh, no, no, I don’t want to talk anymore. That’s hilarious. I love
Sabrina: that so much. Okay. This has been a great chat. So valuable. I know we’re going to get such incredible feedback.
Uh, you talked briefly about the different ways that people can work with you. We are going to have all of that stuff linked in the show notes. Um, several other really valuable things were mentioned today. I’m going to put all the links in for those as well. Um, so it’s really fun because if you loved this chat, uh, this is going to be dropping in September.
Um, Melissa is actually going to be teaching inside my membership, the round table later this month. Uh, and so those ladies get to hear from her again in like a really intimate setting, which is going to be absolutely incredible. And if If you still have not joined us in the round table, and this is maybe pushing you over and you’re like, I need to be in there.
I’ll have a link for you to join us in the show notes as well. But that’s it for today, my friends. Thanks for being here and we’ll see you next time. Thanks so much for listening to the shoot it straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at the show notes.
Sabrina Gebhardt. com backslash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gebhardt photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review until next time, my friends shoot it straight.
