113: Mindset Shifts for Money Makers with Kelly Marshall

Sabrina: On today’s episode of the Shoot It Straight podcast, we have one of my favorite people, Kelly Marshall with us. And we’re talking about the subject of what to do with your money and your money mindset when things are going really well. So it’s super common in the money mindset space to talk about things when you are scared or in scarcity or fear or worry, things aren’t going well.

But what about what to do when things are going well, when you are making a lot of money, when your income feels really, really solid? What are some things that you can put in place to help you grow and move forward in your business? This conversation is a good mix of Practical tips and advice. And also we get into mindset stuff as well.

It’s a really, really great conversation because Kelly and I have been working together for about three years. And so it really does feel like you’re just listening to a conversation between friends. I know that this is going to serve you well in your business right now, because we are in Q4 and that is generally a really great time.

profitable and abundant time for businesses. And I can’t wait to get your feedback and hear what you think. So let’s dive into the episode. Welcome to the shoot it straight podcast. I’m your host, Sabrina Gephardt. Here, I will share an honest take on what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing business, motherhood.

And life myself, along with my guests, we’ll get vulnerable through honest conversations and relatable stories, because we’re willing to go there. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, the shoot it straight podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.

Welcome back to the shoot it straight podcast. My friends. I am so excited about today and today’s guests. Uh, for two reasons. Number one, I already know her and love her, and so this is gonna feel like a really fun, easy chat ’cause we’ve talked a lot over the years and the second reason I’m excited is because.

Literally everyone, and I mean everyone that I introduced this woman to immediately loves her too. Like she just has that energy about her and she’s such a gem of a human and she’s so wise. And today she’s on the podcast and I get to share her with you all. So I’m so excited. But before we dive into this chat.

My friend, Kelly, please introduce yourself to the audience and let everybody know a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Kelly: Well, thank you for that incredible intro. Um, I’m Kelly Marshall and I’m a bookkeeper and financial coach for conscious entrepreneurs, which basically means the purpose driven do gooders, if you will, out in the world.

I’m really on a mission to help them feel good about their money because when you’re When they feel good about it, they can make more money. And when they’re making more money, they’re doing more good with it. They’re spending it into their communities and making a difference in all kinds of ways. And that feels like a little ripple effect for me.

So yeah, that’s what I do. I’m in Buffalo, New York. I’m a mom. And I’ve had this version of this business for about six years.

Sabrina: Yeah, which is really cool because we probably got connected probably three years ago and have worked, been working together a little over two years now, I think ish. So, um, it’s been really cool to see what you’ve done for me and my business, which we’ll get into in this episode, but also, um, I have been able to see what you’ve done to women that I’ve connected you with.

And that’s really cool too. So anyways, this is, this is going to be such a great chat today. So this episode is airing in mid November, mid October, not November, mid October. That is traditionally when photographers are in this super. Like abundant period. Okay. That’s generally who this listening audience is.

There are a lot of other creative entrepreneurs, which even outside of the photographer space, that’s when you’re heading into the holidays. That’s generally when creative business owners are like rocking and rolling. Right. We are still. Seeing our biggest income, we’re seeing the most clients come in, and that means from a cashflow perspective, we are like green lights.

We’re feeling good about things, right? Things we don’t, it’s just, it’s the best time of year for creative entrepreneurs and. It’s exciting because you’re bringing in all this cash and no matter what the beginning of the year looked like or felt like, everything feels positive now because you’re like, Oh my gosh, I can breathe.

I’m going to make it. I can pay my bills. I can bring home. I can pay myself. I can bring home all this money. And it feels really, really exciting. And from the photographer specific perspective, By mid october, we have brought in a ton of deposits booking out the rest of our year and at that point, we’re also seeing balances of invoices be paid.

We’re seeing clients, you know, order products and so we just have this Mhm. massive influx of cash, which is great. And today we’re going to talk about how we can treat money and our mindset around money when things are good. And I’m super excited about this chat because I feel like most of the money discussions are not when things are good.

It’s when things are bad. And when there’s this scarcity, um, and fear. And so we’re kind of flipping that script a little bit today. We’re going to chat about some practical things as well as some mindset things when we’re in that position of financial abundance, which is, I love that

Kelly: a great time. Yeah.

And if I think back, I think the first time you and I met was kind of in that November, December timeframe and making your plan. for the following year and going forward from there. So I’ve seen that side of it, but I’ve also worked with some people, some photographers specific in February and March and seeing the other side.

So I love, I love this. Um, I love that you created it this way, this conversation.

Sabrina: Yeah, that’s exactly. When we started working together, when we, when I first reached out to you, I had been connected to you through a previous business coach. And so I had heard your teachings. And so you weren’t new to me, but I was new to you.

And so I had reached out, um, at that end of year period when I had quote unquote, all of this cash in the bank. It was that end of the year where I felt like I couldn’t do any wrong, right? I’m on top of the mountain. I’ve got all this money in the world, you know, and things are going great. And financially previously to that, I had just been pushing all of my profits into my personal accounts.

Right at, at this point that you and I started working together, I had, I had been in business over 10 years and I had just done things the way I’d done things. I was on this autopilot, which I think is so common and you know, like I mentioned before, the early part of the year, you’re in scarcity and you’re in fear and is my business failing?

And then all of a sudden it’s like the floodgates open, you can pay yourself, you can pay for Christmas and vacations and projects and all these things. And I was in such an extreme state of. When money comes in, I immediately push it back out. Not towards bad things, but I just wasn’t hanging on to it and I was ready to change that.

I was kind of at a, um, at a point where I was like, I’m tired of feeling like I’m bringing all this money in and then, and then just poof, it’s gone, you know? And so I reached out to you and we decided that Profit First would be a great, Thing for my business to implement and you helped me get going with that.

So before we go any further, profit first is not a super common term that like the general public knows about. And so I would love for you just kind of share a little bit about what it is and how it can help entrepreneurs.

Kelly: Yeah, I’d love to. So Profit First is a system, basically a system to manage the money in your business.

There’s a book, the system was created by a man named Mike Michalowicz and he created, he wrote a book called Profit First. So I highly recommend starting there, reading the book and seeing if it resonates. And basically that system, he writes it in a way that’s very simple and easy to follow and he’s kind of funny.

And so I don’t know about you, but I’m reading a dry book. I’m not getting through it, but I’m reading a funny book. I’m devouring it. And I did that with his book. And it’s kind of like, if anybody’s heard of the envelope system, like if their grandmother or their parents or somebody taught them, or, or they saw them using an envelope system where they would get paid and they would put the money into different envelopes for whatever they were going to spend it on the grocery envelope, the gas envelope.

People have heard of Dave Ramsey, who I’m not necessarily a fan of, but there’s an envelope system with that. You’re putting your money in these envelopes. Essentially, the profit first system is that for businesses, but we don’t use envelopes. We use bank accounts. And how it helps us is if you, in the past, when you were paid all this money, float in, and you’re like, It would be in your business account if you had one.

If you don’t have a business account, let’s start there, but hopefully you’ve got a business account. It would sit there and you don’t know what that money is needed for. You don’t know if that’s needed for expenses in January through March. You don’t know if that’s needed, if that’s there to pay you. You don’t know if it’s there to buy new equipment or something that you need.

You don’t really know what in that account is available to you. Do you need it for taxes for next year? You don’t know. It’s all in one big. Bucket one big plate. They call it plates. I like buckets. It’s one big bucket. Then you don’t know where that needs to go. So profit first helps you take that big bucket and split it into smaller buckets.

So you’ve got, this is how much I need to, you know, to pay myself over these next couple of months. This is how much I can set aside for profit and for kind of a rainy day fund. This is how much should be set aside for taxes so that I don’t get surprised by a big tax bill. And then this is. What I need to run my business on.

And just that alone of like breaking it into those smaller buckets, it gives you a calmness first of all, but it helps you really have insight into what’s available to you. How can you spend that money, you know, not pulling it all out into personal now when you’re going to have certain costs coming up in January, February, March that are there no matter what, you know, for the business and things like that.

So it just helps you have better insight into how to spend your money. I just want to add before I forget this thought is Business owners in general look at our bank accounts to make decisions, like some people may have a system with QuickBooks and or they might be really good at tracking their money in a spreadsheet, but more often than not, when people are making business decisions, can I go buy this?

They’re looking at their bank account balances. And that’s why this works too, is it works with habits that business owners already have. And Mike talks about this in the book. It works with your current business habits. You’re going to go look at those bank account balances. So by having them split into the right buckets, you know what’s available in each of those categories.

Sabrina: Yeah. Profit first. Was such a game changer for me. And it’s funny because Kelly knows this about me. I love spreadsheets more than the average person.

Kelly: I’m

Sabrina: a weirdo. I love, and it’s part, it’s partially because of where I cut my background and like what I did before I was an entrepreneur. I love numbers. I love spreadsheets. I’ve always had them. Yeah. And even with that, even with me having my hands in my business data more than the average person, I was still struggling to see like the full picture because no matter how well you have a handle on like your recurring expenses and your seasonal things and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you can’t keep it all straight.

And there’s so much. That changes in a creative entrepreneur’s business. It’s not this like every month you’re getting this and you know, it’s recurring. It’s really all over the board based on there’s some seasonality. There’s some, you know, economic stuff that going on in the world. There’s also trends.

There’s also new things that can pop off and take off. I mean, you just don’t know. And. Those two things combined, the, the not being able to remember the big picture. And then also just the unpredictability of income was like, just, it was too complicated to really understand what was happening financially in my business.

And I tell the women, I coach this all the time, moving to profit first. I wish I would have done it so much sooner because it has, it’s Absolutely changed so much about my business. It’s changed the way I pay myself. It has changed the way I look at what I can afford. It has changed so much growth. And then it’s also opened up all of this mindset freedom that then ripples into all of these other kinds of positive changes.

So if you are intrigued by Profit First and how it can help you, I agree with Kelly. The book is a really easy read. If you’re an audio book person, it’s a really easy listen. Let’s just be totally honest. Again, I’m a spreadsheet person and I still hired you to do it for me. Because I just was like, I need somebody else to like, look at this from the outside in and help me out and get it organized.

How accessible do you think it is for someone to set up on their own? Or do you really encourage them to consider letting a professional help them?

Kelly: I’ve seen both. Um, and it really does depend on where they’re at in their business, their love of spreadsheets and how much they want to dig in and figure this out.

So those are variables. Profit first can be started at any time in somebody’s structure of their business. Like you can start it in the very beginning. It gets a little easier once you’re making more money than you’re spending. But the theory, I actually started it in my business before I was making enough money to cover my expenses.

But I just did it to create the habit. So I just started with 1%, I would move, you know, into the profit account, the tax account, things like that, just to build the habit because I was also looking to support people with this. I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but if you don’t have any income coming in and you’re funding the business still, every, you’re paying for all the expenses, it’s probably a little too early.

So I just wanted to start there. So if you’re starting brand new and you’re you have that fresh start, I think you might be able to get through it on your own. But if you’re kind of established your expenses, you really need some support, kind of holding your hand going through those expenses to determine.

What are my expenses going forward? What, what can I keep? What could I cut? What’s like a money leak? What do I want to add? Like, there’s a lot of questions that come into that process of when we’re creating those initial allocations. If you’re not going to be able to get through that on your own, then get some help and get it started.

Don’t let that overwhelm be something that keeps you from doing it at all, because it’s going to serve you if you take the time and do it. Um, so that’s kind of the determining factor. I’ve certainly seen people do it on their own, but it gets a little muddy when you’re getting into those first allocations and then kind of setting that up over those first couple months to have some support is probably worth it.

Sabrina: I definitely agree. That’s the, that’s the reason I did it is because I was too far in and you know, when you’re in the middle, you’re in the thick of it, you can’t see all the details. Um, and having your fresh eyes come in and point things out and ask me questions and do the cleanup, so to speak, and kind of get it situated.

Was so worth the investment. And I will say for anybody hearing this, that they’re like, Oh my gosh, another investment, you know, another thing, this is one of those things that you really can pay like a one time fee, right. For a VIP day or a setup expense. And then you really can take it and run with it because that’s what I did with you.

I hired you for the one off experience first, and then I ran with it for six months. Six or eight months before I came back to you and hired you for something else. And it has been so easy. And for the most part, I still do all of my own profit first stuff myself. I do the allocations. I watched the buckets.

I do all that because you set it up first. So it’s, this is a really easy thing for somebody to. Do it, have help setting it up and then they can take it over, so to speak.

Kelly: The other shameless plug on that one that I’ll give is during that process, that’s where a lot of the mindset stuff comes up. So it’s an opportunity for me to kind of hold you in that space.

And I’m, there are a lot of people out there that do profit first. I don’t want to make it seem like I’m the only one, but in the way that I do it. I really, my goal is to hold you through that process, get through some of the challenging stuff. You know, there even could be, you know what, this isn’t the right fit.

And we can kind of work through that. And when would the right fit be? And, um, and then I like to go through a process of like, okay, where does income need to be to make this work really well for you and to hit your goals. And we get to play with that. And some people call it my magic spreadsheet. We go in there and We plug in numbers and see how do you create the business that matches this vision and the dreams that you have.

And so that’s part of the process too. It’s not just all about getting the allocation set up. It’s kind of that, that fun part too. And truthfully, truthfully, it’s my favorite part. So I had to add that little plug in for that.

Sabrina: Yeah. And it’s really, that is a really impactful part too, because especially for, you know, so many creative entrepreneurs, they don’t get into it for the, Profitability side or the moneymaking side, they get into it because they love doing the thing that they’re doing.

And a lot of business owners get hung up on, well, that’s great and wonderful, but to be successful in business, you need to be profitable and make money and have a plan. And so you kind of help them step into that visionary space, um, and see what their business can look like, which is really exciting. I do want to circle back around to one thing you said, where you said that that, um, You can start the profit first process earlier, but when you’re making more money, it is a little bit easier to get going.

So that’s why circling back to it’s October and everybody’s rolling in the dough right now. That’s why I made the choice to start this process at the end of the year with you. Because. Yeah. I had so much cash in the bank and I knew that we were starting from a really abundant bucket that we could play with instead of starting in January or February when things are really dry.

And so if you’re considering doing this process, I really loved doing it because From the immediate get go, I was paying myself a paycheck. I had buckets established. We weren’t in this weird holding pattern of like, when you start making money, you can do this. Like we got to jump in and get started, which was really, really nice.

Kelly: That’s a good point. Yeah, it makes it a lot easier if there’s nothing to pull from, we’re talking conceptually until you can get there and it makes it a lot harder. So I like, I like that idea. And there’s been other people we’ve worked with where they, this is another piece of it where they’ve just kind of squirreled their money away.

Like they just, they keep this big operation, operating expense account and they don’t know what’s there and what they have permission to spend. It was actually one of your clients last year around this time of year, we did that cause she just held on to all her money. She didn’t give herself permission to spend freely.

Because she didn’t know what she could spend. And so a lot of times when I’m working people, it’s that they spend it all out. But there’s another group of people where they just, they never know when enough reserve is enough. And so by taking that, that big plate, that big operating account, that’s full of, I don’t even know what, and putting it into the right buckets, it’s peace of mind.

It’s like, okay, that’s how, and by the way, this, person. I wasn’t even planning to go there, but she was stuck in her job still. She was like, she didn’t, couldn’t see where the opportunity would be for her, for it to be safe for her to move into her business because she had no idea what was in that chunk of an account.

And so that was another example of where that was a really good confidence booster for her to Make her plan on like how to make this vision of her business a reality and and get real with what that money was Therefore.

Sabrina: Yeah, that’s such a good point. So Like I said, I am a habitual spender I tend to lean towards the spending side and this woman that you’re describing is a saver.

So on either end I personally think yes, you can start early, but if you’re starting from a place where you’ve got cash in the bank Whatever side you’re on, uh, I think that’s the easiest place to start from. The other thing I wanted to touch on was you spoke to this part of creating the habit of moving the money into different buckets.

So again, you set this up for me and then I have run with the habit of allocating, which is moving the money into the buckets and the book. The whole like premise behind the profit first system is to allocate like monthly. I personally like to allocate weekly because I have found for my mindset, it’s really fun for me to go in and look at my income account and move money around.

Like energetically, it feels really good to me. So yes, I’m adding like a 10 minute task. To my week, every single week that I could be just doing once a month, but for me, it feels so abundant to get to go in there and be like, look how much money I made this week and move it around, you know? And so creating that habit hasn’t been bad for me at all.

Like it’s been super easy and it’s been fun. And I think it’s added to the whole, you’ve probably heard this mentioned before in the money space, like. One of the first places you need to start to have a good relationship with money is to look at it and to pay attention. And that is this for me. It forces me to go in, look at what’s happening, move it around, put some energy towards it instead of just being like, I don’t

Kelly: know.

There’s a couple of reasons I love that. One, to back up to the allocation piece. So in the book, Mike, It might suggest the 10th and the 25th. That’s how he’s got it in there, but it’s really what works for you. So I don’t, that never made sense to me because the 10th could be a Sunday and I just didn’t understand that.

So I like to pick days of the month and I typically do two days. It used to be cycled around when my husband, when his pay period was coming in, when he worked for corporate, he now works with me. Um, but that was how he cycled it. So we kind of got in that habit. I’ve shifted it a little more this year to be timed based on like.

When do I collect most of my money? Okay, we’ll do it after that, and then I do it again later in the month. So you get to make it work for you. So that’s one thing. It doesn’t have, you know, creating a system, having something you’re doing consistently is important, but as far as when, it really gets to work for you.

And I have a few clients that like to do the weekly, and I love that piece of it. I love the energy of you touching your money. Looking at what’s going on in your other accounts too is never a bad idea, because you can catch things quicker, you’re aware of things going on. But the whole income tracking piece, there’s a huge energy piece to that where you get to celebrate what’s there, you get to be grateful for what’s come in, you know, there’s, there’s a practice I even, um, in my mind.

Monthly newsletter, which is going to be starting officially this month. We’re going to have an income tracker in there. It’s a calendar page where, you know, people can color on it and make it bright and like bring a creative practice into that income tracking. Because it’s so important to be paying attention to that flow and, you know, what, what you measure gross.

That’s a famous saying for a reason. So when you’re paying attention to it and setting goals and, you know, watching your energy and your mindset around that. It makes magical things happen with that. So I love that you do that weekly. And I would encourage anybody, even if you think this profit first thing is not for you, start tracking your income, pay attention to your money.

Um, keep an eye on it, create up, create a practice and a ritual around that. And that’s going to shift your energy and your connectedness to the money part of your business. And it makes a difference.

Sabrina: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree. So Let’s shift into a little bit of the mindset stuff. Now, there is definitely a mindset piece to the story of me starting to work with you and starting to get going with profit first.

Like I said, at the beginning of the episode, I was kind of done swinging between the extremes of all of this money at the end of the year, and then no money at the beginning of the year, I was kind of over it and I knew that there had to be a better way and so that’s when we started working together and I wanted to have more of that.

Contentment from beginning of to end of year, instead of the waves of scarcity and abundance and, and riding those extremes all the time. And I really do attribute so much of the quote unquote success I’ve had in the last three years to this decision to manage the money differently in my business. One of the main reasons is because I have taken a consistent paycheck every other week since we have started this process, which is unheard of for a lot of creative entrepreneurs, you know, and, and I want the audience to hear me say, when I say it consistent, I mean, an exact amount paycheck that is the same every two weeks for almost three years.

And, um, I also take, you know, bonuses quarterly, which is part of the profit first system as well. And financially, Knowing that I can roll into January and February when bookings and inquiries are low and income is low for photographers. And I’m literally not stressed because I see my next paycheck is already there.

It’s fine. And I can make decisions and spend my time better, not freaking out and having to come up with these panic offers to try and scrape in some money. I can just relax and enjoy the slow cycle. season and make intentional plans for the rest of the year. It’s been an absolute game changer. So for me, I had to come to that decision first.

I had to be like, I’m done with this to move forward and make a change that was going to stick. Do you think that’s necessary for everybody that they have to like come to that decision point, get to an end of a rope, so to speak, to really see change.

Kelly: They have to make a decision, but it doesn’t have to come from the same place.

So for some people, they’ll never get started in business if they don’t have something like this. And they right now don’t know this exists. So they’re, they have fear. They’re like, well, how am I even going to pay myself? You know? So they may need it early on just to create safety for them. Other people get hit with, I’ve talked about this tax bill thing, and we’re going to talk about some abundance mindset pieces, but that tax bill, like having your focus on the paycheck, and I think that’s hugely important.

In fact, you know, we look at yours and you have several paychecks sitting in that account. So we know you’ve got safety for months. And that’s a huge goal. But the tax bill is one of those things that sneaks up on people. So a lot of times they’ll come to this after they had a good year and they got hit with that tax bill.

And they’re like either they’re done and they’re shifting things and going back to where they, they don’t make enough money to have that. Or it’s like, well, I have to figure this out. I’m never going through that again. So that can be a choice point that hits for them. For me, again, I had, I guess I should tell the story about, Why I found Prophet first in the first place.

It kind of was a gift for me, but it came from a little bit of a sad story. I was working with a client, so I’ve had the bookkeeping business since 2004. That’s why I say this, I’ve had this version for six years. I started in 2004 and Had a couple of clients and then had an opportunity to, to join, um, um, investment operating firm.

And I just couldn’t turn down that opportunity. So I took the business very part time and I only kept this one client who wouldn’t let me say I’m done with it. And so I stayed with him and, but I was only doing bookkeeping, purely just data entry bookkeeping for him. And I was talking to him about starting up the business and taking a different focus and kind of, um, supporting kind of the coaching piece more.

And he said to me, almost with tears in his eyes. He goes, well, Cal, when did, when do I get to get paid? That was 10 over 10 years. He’d been in this business and he felt like. He hadn’t been paid yet. He was just working like a dog. And what he was really doing was he was working a consulting side of his business to support another side that wasn’t cash flowing well.

But at the end of the day, um, both businesses and profit and loss, which is what accountants look at, he’d made money. So in my mind, he’s fine. He made money, but in reality, he spent a lot of that money personally, when good more months were good, he’d spend it where months were bad. He went into that, you know, scarcity.

And I, I didn’t even have an understanding of that because I just had this accounting bookkeeper look at it. So I actually found Profit First that week. He asked me that question. I’d love to say we implemented it successfully and everything was fine with him. We didn’t, and COVID was tough, but he did end up retiring.

But I was able to then help a lot of other business owners with that. And, and it was a gift to me that I got to put that in my business really early on. Now, again, I maybe was pushed to do it a little quicker because I wanted to help people with it. And I was working through things with the Profit First team and they make you implement it before you can get their certification.

But. It was such a relief to know right off the bat, because even as a bookkeeper, I didn’t really know what I should be setting aside for taxes. You know, I didn’t really understand that. Nobody really tells you that answer until you get the book. Um, you know, nobody really tells you that. Even in business school, I went through four years of business school.

I worked in a corporate career for over 20 years, and I couldn’t have told them then what to set aside for taxes. Well, you do your taxes at the end of the year, you find out. Well, that doesn’t work, you know, if you have a great year and you spent all that money. So, that was kind of the catalyst for me starting and it, I was It created a safety for me that I didn’t even know I needed yet, but it was a real gift.

And so if somebody is hearing this at any stage, you just have to find your, why make the decision and take the time to, to put it into place. Cause it does take a little time. It might take an investment to get some support, but it’s worth it. You don’t want to be 10 years into your business working like a dog.

You know, in never seeing ends meet, you want to be like Sabrina, who had the money setting set aside, doesn’t have to go generate cash, like out of scarcity, you know, that’s where that working like a dog comes in, because the money’s already gone. And all of a sudden you have to pay a bill or you have to do something and now you’re coming at it from a different energy perspective.

So. I don’t know if that answered the question, but I’d say there’s any times a good time, but you have to be committed to it, don’t start it thinking, well, maybe I’ll try this. Like, if you read the book and it resonates, take the steps to put it into place, and it’s gonna take a little time and effort in the beginning, but then it all gets easy.

It’s so much easier after. And every once in a while you’ll have to fix something. I had a conversation with a client today and we’re putting her on payroll now. She’s going to become an S corp and she’s going on payroll. Well, that shifts things. So you have to look at it from time to time, but once you get it rolling and less things that you’re having a big change, it just works.

Sabrina: You definitely have to commit to moving forward with it because this is not like a, I’m going to start it and then I’m not going to do it anymore. Like you’re either going to do it or you’re not, but it’s not hard to do and to keep going. Right. This is, this is not a saying like you have to learn QuickBooks and you have to be in there all the time, you know, like that’s not this at all.

And so you do have to commit to doing it, but it is an absolute game changer. I do want to say one thing regarding the tax story that you’re telling. And going back to kind of how my mindset has just totally changed with this. And so obviously like I have a tax bucket and then part of this story is also that about 18 months after setting this up for my business, I set it up for our personal home funds as well, um, because I loved how it was supporting me and the listening audience.

Uh, I think everybody knows my husband is also an entrepreneur, so we’re a double entrepreneur household, which is awesome and terrible at the same time, mostly awesome. Um, but I wanted to have this knowledge for our personal budget and spending as well. And the tax example. We’re kind of, you know, getting it from both sides, being two entrepreneurs, two successful entrepreneurs, we never know what’s going to happen with taxes, you know, and we’ve been in a situation, we’re so blessed that year over year, we have just both seen astronomical growth.

And so we’re chasing this, like, what’s our, our happy number, what are we going to have to owe? And it’s hard, it’s hard to figure out. But I have a business tax bucket and we have a personal tax bucket and my husband pays taxes through his, his firm as well. And this past year when we filed our taxes, uh, I got on my monthly call with Kelly.

She’s like, what do you owe? And I’m like, Oh, it’s a high five figures. It’s really high. And her eyes got really big cause she was like, Oh man, this is not going to be good. And. She said, how do you feel about that? And I said, I actually feel totally fine. Like totally fine. Not because we had dollar for dollar there, but we had most of it there.

And I knew when the rest of it was coming. And I literally was like, no, it’s fine. Like it is what it is. We’re mostly prepared. It’s not a big deal. And it’s because of this, because I’ll tell you what, Five years ago, if we would have gotten a tax bill this high, I would have been sent immediately into a into a panic spiral, like a really nasty panic spiral, because it’s a lot of money.

And if you’re not ready for it, you know, then what?

Kelly: Yeah, same thing happened this year. And I, we had some kind of complicated, it was a little more complicated for us because my husband joined us in the business was showing me in the business last year and I took it to my guy and it was a high number and I remember like you would have thought he was thinking he was going to put me into counseling.

I got to show you and he was handling it so delicately and I’m like, I’m, I’m okay. We have it, you know, we have it sitting there. And so now that gets to be a, wow, we had a really good year last year. Instead of a, you want to throw up because there’s no money there. You already spent it. You know, really, if we think about it, And not everybody likes the statement, but it’s not your money at that time.

Like that’s money that’s owed to the government. So if you just set it aside, you get to hold on to it and collect the interest or make your estimated tax payments, but you get to hold it until you need to give it to them. And then if you do, you just get to celebrate that you had a great year and it doesn’t come that like a pit in your stomach, make you sick, throw you off because nothing makes you play smaller than getting like when you feel defeated by something like that.

Like Are you going to be motivated to grow your business at that time? Are you going to want to take the action steps that it takes to go find new clients or however you want to look at it? No. So you want to stay in that abundance mindset as much as you can. So when the money’s there, you don’t have to go through that roller coaster.

There’s enough roller coasters in entrepreneurship. If you can prevent some of them. It’s worth today’s

Sabrina: episode is brought to you by the round table, a community built for female photographers who want to continue growing their business while forging industry friendships along the way. In this group, you will learn practical ways to move your business forward while finding community and accountability with like minded photographers.

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If you’re ready to join us, you can head over to sabrinagabhart. com backslash membership and enroll today. Now back to the episode, one of the small little fun things that I think is fun about profit first is that you get to name all your bank accounts, like fun stuff. And my tax account is named paying taxes as good because every time I see it, it reminds me that the more I owe, the better I’m doing.

Not to look at it with like, Oh, we owe all this money. It makes me want to throw up, you know? And that’s how people talk about taxes for

Kelly: sure.

Sabrina: But I’m trying to change it and be like, I want to owe a lot of taxes because that means I’m killing it, you know, and that we’re doing really well and we’re thriving.

So, and I, I know

Kelly: people who them, they haven’t made that mindset shift yet. And it keeps them small. Every day. I’d rather make the 70 cents on the dollar if I’m paying 30 percent taxes than not make the dollar at all. And some people keep it small and not make that. I just can’t think of it that way.

Sabrina: Yeah, exactly.

Kelly: So that I don’t have to feel that way.

Sabrina: Yeah, yeah. It’s a small thing, but I swear it makes a difference because the fact of the matter is taxes are taxes. If you’re going to run a business and you’re going to live in America, like it is what it is, you cannot change it. So you either buckle up and go for it and try and do really well, knowing that you’re going to pay taxes or don’t get started.

You can’t have it both ways, you know. Okay. I want to know, are there any other common like mindset issues or struggles that you see, uh, with business owners and abundance? Uh, maybe, maybe some things that you want to share or debunk a little bit. I know there’s a lot.

Kelly: Yeah.

Sabrina: Yeah.

Kelly: There’s so many, I think.

Let’s see, we talked about the tax one. I wanted to make sure I covered that. This isn’t necessarily mindset. I guess it’s another issue I see, but you know, when there’s abundance, when there’s money coming in, one of, one of the things we talked about is people will spend that right away. Like, you know, for you guys, it’s not as much as it might be for somebody that does a coaching program and charges for a six month program or something like that.

We see that more on your coaching side, but for photographers, they get that deposit. And then they get that paid in full. So it’s a little bit less of that, but what I think what they have to cover is more that slow season. And it’s like about spending all that money and it just sends them on a somersault again, I guess that’s the roller coaster.

Maybe we did cover that one a bit already, but what I see sometimes that comes along with that is really looking for the big win, like. Get distracted by a shiny object or really be just always searching for that big win in a cash flow and not really celebrating all the amounts. This is like what you talked about with the weekly and this can be a little bit of a trap because, you know, there might be money coming in here and there and a deposit or whatever money is flowing through.

It almost is like they discount that and want to find the big win or they want to just chase the next mark. Let’s say things did feel hard and they’re having to create these cash flow. Emergency scarcity needs that we talked about that can get exhausting. And so you’re searching for the next best way to do it.

And you’re re you’re recreating your process all the time and. Maybe signing up for, you know, another strategy that, that doesn’t, you don’t need, you know, if you’re always searching for that big shiny object versus like creating a nice repeatable process, like you figured out this season, you did this well, you did this piece well, this season, repeat that next season.

And like getting into that flow. Really is and not just spending all the abundance when it comes in, like allowing that to kind of flow into the next season for you just brings that calm and that peace and then you can just keep repeating the things that already worked. And I think that that’s a really big part of it.

Don’t get. We can want to chase like that shiny object sexy part of it, and we don’t need that, you know, we really need is for it to take care of us from for it to work doesn’t mean that you don’t want to put in a new strategy here and there. I’m not encouraging that, but just staying calm about it and not doing it from a scare.

You can just tell the difference in the intentionality. You know, and in the energy around it,

Sabrina: it’s really obvious to me from a coaching perspective when I even just follow somebody on instagram, like even just if they’re sending me a dm, not even if we’re in an in depth coaching situation, it is really obvious for me to see who is in the scene.

Fear, panic, scarcity, space about their business versus who is in a really comfortable space that’s looking to grow, right? There’s an up level. Yeah, totally, totally different.

Kelly: That’s what I’m trying to say.

Sabrina: Yeah. There’s two totally different things. And what you’re saying about creating repeatable rhythms.

I think this is, I want the photographers to hear me say this. First quarter is always going to be slow. Period. Period. Like, I’m just, and that’s the end. Like, first quarter is always going to be slow. That’s part of the rhythm. And instead of fearing it, embrace it. It is always going to be that, especially when it is backed up to Q4, which Q1 is always backed up to Q4.

Q4 is always going to be your highest quarter and Q1 is always going to be your lowest quarter. It’s just the way it is. And it feels even more extreme because they’re next door. You come from extreme abundance to extreme quiet. But if you can expect that that’s the rhythm, just like we expect the seasons to change, right?

It is what it is. And It makes a huge difference to how you feel, how you spend your days, what mentally is happening, how you’re spending or saving your money. And it’s huge. It’s huge. And it’s, this is something that takes time, like to really trust the process. I feel like new, newer photographers. They can hear this and they can know it’s true, but they don’t actually believe it or

Kelly: trust it, which is hard.

I, I can, I can understand that from them, but I also think like, that’s why this conversation is important to like, just to hear it’s normal. You know, I don’t have the photographer experience, but I have. Yeah. Just an entrepreneurship experience. And whenever I hear that one of my struggles is just, that’s typical, that’s a growing pain of the business.

It’s like, Oh, okay. I’m not doing everything wrong. Cause when you’re on this journey, it can feel like that some days. And then the next day you feel like you’re totally winning and you’ve got it all right. It’s just something we, it’s a rollercoaster that we ride. So I think understanding that that’s normal and to.

And I loved what you were saying, like, expect it. Maybe this is when you do your learning. Maybe this is when you create, you know, your next system. Like, okay, this part of the business was hard last year. I’m going to put a system in now so that that’s easier. Um, I think that’s really important to acknowledge that.

And then you can make use of that time and not go into a scarcity mode. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

Sabrina: We touched on this briefly, but I want to kind of go into it a little bit more, cause I think it’s an important part of my story that I want to share. But. Another big thing that has changed in us working together, which I guess, let me pause and interject.

I hired you initially to get started with profit first. And then a few months later, I came back around and I was like, do you offer money in mindset coaching? Can I hire you for that? And so we started this coaching relationship where we’d get on a call once a month. And, um, You were not doing bookkeeping for me at the time.

It was truly just a touch base. What are you struggling with? What can we, what can I help you with that kind of thing? And that was super valuable. And at the time I, you were not doing bookkeeping for me because you were at capacity. Like it wasn’t because I didn’t want you. It’s because you couldn’t. And then about maybe a year later, I guess, uh, kind of the stars aligned.

My existing bookkeeper was retiring. You had capacity to take on new clients. So I ran to you and said, sign me up, let’s do it. So now we do both. We meet on a monthly basis and you’re doing my bookkeeping. We go over actual numbers and then we talk through stuff. Um, so our relationship has just continued to get more and more.

In addition to the fact that. Uh, you teach in my coaching program now in my mastermind, which everybody loves you. And you’ve come and taught in my membership before, and now you’re on the podcast. So it’s been fun to see our relationship evolve. But one of the things that we’ve worked through together over the years now is, uh, Again, I tend to be a spender, like that’s just my personality.

That’s one of my archetypes, which is another conversation for another day, but it’s increasing my capacity to hold money and not let it go immediately, which again, we’ve talked about the people who are savers. That’s not me. They don’t have a problem holding. They have a problem releasing. I’m the other end of the spectrum.

And so naturally being a spender, but also wanting to be a rule follower and like feeling like if I have money coming in, I need to be using it to pay off debt or using it for quote unquote good things. So we would have these in this influx of money come in, whether it be for my husband’s business or my own or both.

And I would tend to want to send it all out immediately, whether it be debt, projects, travel, Christmas, whatever it was. And so I was still not. Having this capacity to just hold it, to let it stay and keep me safe. And again, in my story, I got to a point where I was kind of fed up with that feeling and fed up with the fact that my husband and I both have very successful businesses.

Why do I feel like I never have any money, you know? And so we worked on, we’ve worked on that. A lot. And again, just like moving to profit first was a game changer, moving to change how I think about money and get excited about having so much of it available to me in different capacities has the best way to describe it is it has allowed me to breathe.

Like allowed me this peace of mind that I almost didn’t even know I needed because I was so used to living in a space of not having any and that felt normal. And it’s been absolutely beautiful working on this, being, allowing myself to hold the capacity to just hang on to money. It’s been a game changer.

So Other entrepreneurs out there like me that could potentially be struggling with the same thing again. We’re in October where money is flowing in if they struggle to hold on to it or feel like they never have it. What advice do you have for them or what can shifting into that look like?

Kelly: I think thank you for sharing all that because that I know there are other people out there that feel that and I can.

It was funny because you, as I’m hearing you say that, like I’m reflecting on my own pieces of this, like where even in the business in the beginning, it would be like, okay, I gotta have 1, 000 in there. And now I think about what my minimum is and that’s expanded and that’s through work and that’s through intention and that’s through mindset.

It didn’t happen accidentally because I lean towards the spending side too. I know you hear bookkeeper. People think we’re all like. Little squirrels saving every little thing, but we’re not. There’s a lot of us that are on the other end, and we use these systems to help support us, too, and so you really helped me reflect on that.

I think, and I think this helps, this happens with both spenders and savers as it comes down to trust. So for a spender, I They don’t trust themselves to use that money wisely. So when it comes in and this, there could be different versions of the story, but I think a lot of times they don’t trust them to use it wisely when it comes in.

It’s like, I better get it all out on the things I should get it on. Because you know, if I don’t do it now, it’ll all kind of slip away. And so there’s a lack of trust for themselves to be able to hold that and use it in a way that’s going to really serve them over the coming months. And then from a saver perspective, They want to hold it all because, well, what if I can’t do it again?

What if I can’t, what if next year is not as good? What if, you know, what if, what if I got to keep my job and do a full time business because, you know, I’m never going to be able to trust myself, you know, it comes down to trust. And so. I think that’s one key piece is working on your trust and trust comes from worthiness.

Trust comes from feeling, um, worthy of this money coming in again, worthy of holding it and trusting myself to, to do what’s going to serve me over the long term. So that’s a big piece of why that made a difference. And I think it was a little bit of permission for you to have like, You know, maybe I’m paying a little interest over here.

So I feel like I have to pay it all down on that. And that can feel logical. Like there are a lot of money managers out there, a lot of money coaches that would say to do that, or there’s even the money manifestation people are like, keep it in flow, spend it all. I don’t believe in that because I think that the safety that comes from having some money there for you outweighs sometimes that interest or that need to keep in flow from the manifestation people.

Like, I think that’s still flow to me. And it’s, it’s just there to. Keep your nervous system safe and it’s there for if something comes up and it’s there like we used it. I hope you don’t mind me sharing this, but in your specific example, you had had it working in the business and you saw the benefits there.

You had when we really dove in on this. It was more on the personal side. And so we set it up in buckets for things that you already had in mind. And then what was cool is you kind of created a system to keep filling those buckets. But that’s the piece that wasn’t there before. It was like feast or famine.

It’s all going to go out when it comes in and then. Well, when that stuff comes up, I guess we’ll charge it and then we’ll deal with it again, kind of a thing. And I’m not saying that’s necessarily yours, but that’s what often happens. So instead we, we filled up some buckets, we paid down some things that make sense, and then we just keep it in flow and we, we have it there and it’s just some, it’s back to the same.

And I don’t think I had this idea when we started this conversation with this would keep coming up like it does, but it’s back to that like even calmness. Yes. You know, not coming from, it’s all about the energy. It’s like not coming from the scarcity need to create need to need to get some cash. It’s like, it’s all about creating safety, creating calmness, evening things out so that it’s there when you need it.

And it might sound a little too good to be true. If somebody is really struggling with this. But we can both speak from our example and I can speak from plenty of other people I’ve supported with this when you allow the system to work for you in this case, and you do the work to keep the money flowing in like that.

That doesn’t happen by accident. You build a business intentionally, but that calmness just serves so well to keep your energy in the right place. Keep keep you well supported so that you’re able to show up like you need to show up to attract the next clients in.

Sabrina: Oh my gosh. I have so many thoughts about what you just said.

Um, I guess the first one I want to speak to is you mentioned like what I needed to feel that calmness. And I, that was a huge piece for me because it allows me to, and I, I talk about this in coaching all the time. It allows me to address the season of life I’m in and what I need right now. And the fact that it doesn’t have to be permanent, like needs change.

And we found something that works for me right now and has made a huge difference. But this may not be what I do with money two years from now or five years from now or 10 years from now. Right. But right now, the season I’m in where the listening audience knows I’ve got a junior in high school, we’ve got college looming.

My kids are at very expensive ages. Um, We’re in a really expensive season and I was feeling so stressed about feeling like I had to give all my money away, but I knew I had all of these expensive things coming. And now when we have this, you know, flood of income seasonally, I’m hanging on to more of it than I’m sending out and it’s going into different buckets.

So I have this peace of mind knowing that, you know, this bill is covered and this thing is covered and this is over here and we’re preparing for this. And when I look at the amount that I have sitting in my accounts now, it’s, it’s more than I’ve ever had in my whole life. And the permission that you gave me to say, we’re going to keep paying on debt, but like, that’s not your priority.

And this season was huge, was absolutely huge. And just in the year or so that we’ve implemented this part of the process for me, As, as woo woo as it sounds, my husband’s business and my business just keeps bringing in more, and it’s because of, I, I know that it’s because of our capacity. Like we’ve increased the capacity.

Yep. We have places to put it and things to do with it, and so it just keeps coming and it is. The most peaceful I’ve ever felt with money and I don’t want anybody to hear this and think Roll their eyes and think whatever like I still got bills. I still have day do like dad I still have three car payments right now.

Like right, you know, we’ve got expensive things going on but the way my relationship with money, the way that it makes me feel when I think about it right now, the way it makes me feel getting a five figure tax bill or an unexpected AC repair or whatever is night and day from where I was three years ago, night and day.

Kelly: Yeah, and that’s the thing too like I can feel you wanting to add that piece in because and I can see like you know how you might have been four years ago if somebody had said these things to you might have been like yeah right you just have it flowing in you know you don’t know what I go through.

And, but you felt the other side, not that long ago and just what these shifts have made possible for you. And yeah, it has helped more income flow in and it comes down to that. Like the, not just the capacity to hold money, but the capacity to, to do what you do in your business and grow it the way you do it and there’s, it just.

That scarcity part’s gone, and it makes a difference. I just want to make another book plug, and I know it’s probably too much for one podcast, but some of, um, one of the best things I’ve read that covers the seasonality part is, um, Rich As F. It’s a terrible title, but by Amanda Francis. We both suggest this book a lot.

Because it’s all about the intentionality. She’s like, there’s going to be a season in your life where, you know, it’s okay to have debt and that you can look at that as flow. And she talks about that piece of it. And then there’s going to come become a time where you don’t tolerate that anymore, and you’re going to pay that off because that’s where you’re at at that point in time.

And I love that, like. The empowerment that comes from that being your choice is really the key because there are going to be people that listen to this are like absolutely not they have no tolerance for debt and that’s okay for them or they would think that’s ridiculous to have money in the bank and pay somebody interest.

That’s their choice. And you get the choice to choose differently, and that’s the one that served you best, and we can see it based on the results. And so, you get to have your own choice, people that are listening, but sure, it’s coming from your own empowerment, not a should from somebody else. Like, it’s gotta come from, you know, what feels right to you, and give yourself the opportunity to think through those questions, you know, or get support.

Because it might look differently and that’s okay too. Like what Sabrina’s got for her, just like she said, may not be right for her in two years. It may not be right for you right now. So you just have to find your way through that decision too and feel it.

Sabrina: And that’s something that you ha you had to help me work through that.

You literally presented me with, well, what if we did it this way? How would that feel to you? And. It was almost shocking to be presented with another option, you know, because the bro money world tells you it needs to be one way and that’s what’s ingrained into our heads. If you’ve ever done any money reading, that’s why I try to only read women money books now.

Um, but just being presented with a way that’s like, wait a minute, you don’t want me to like throw all of our money at debt. You want me to like, hang on to a huge percentage of it. But the more I sat with that idea and you coached me through that, I was like, that’s actually exactly what I need right now.

And it feels. So good. And it has felt so good. And it’s exactly where we need to be right now. And then speaking to what you said about trusting yourself, I do think that obviously there’s a whole lot of mindset work there, but I do think there is a really big piece of the puzzle of Watching your numbers and knowing what’s coming is a part of that trust.

You cannot have trust in the finances of your business or your personal finances if you have your head in the sand and you refuse to look at anything. That was part of us is you, you forecasting my business and saying, based on years past, based on months past, this is what we’re projecting. That adds to that, that trust piece of seeing part of it on paper and going, Okay.

I know what the worst case scenario is going to be, or, you know, I, I know what we’re projecting or

Kelly: like, we’ll go conservative and then like, Oh, if we dream a little more, this is what it is. Thank you for pointing out. It’s not just all feeling about the money. Thank you for bringing back the practical stuff.

We do, we do projections too.

Sabrina: Yeah. But that’s a huge piece. Like

Kelly: they go hand in hand. That’s why, like, I can’t really do one without the other. They go hand in hand. Like sometimes we get in the spreadsheets and go nitty gritty. And then we talk about how we feel about it. Yep. We’ll take action and that’s really a key piece.

So if you’re working with somebody that doesn’t, isn’t willing to do that, or you’re having these conversations with a spouse and they don’t get it, it’s okay to go into your feelings too and like balance those two things back and forth.

Sabrina: Yeah. I think that’s why I love what you do so well so much as you do both.

There’s the mindset and the actual numbers work. Um, you’re not just telling me to like, Journal and manifest things and you’re not just telling me to like look at my numbers and pay off debt There’s there’s both sides to it And we’ve made different decisions. Some are more based on how we feel things are going to go Some are more based on what’s happening on paper.

There’s room for both and I don’t think I ever really understood how that would work until I actually started doing it. It, you know, you read these books about stuff and then you try and do the practical numbers work and it didn’t really click to me until we, until we started doing this work together.

And it really is, there’s two sides to it. And when you’re willing to commit to doing work on both sides, that’s when the magic happens.

Kelly: And I just want to say too, like if people are, are feeling like. They can’t do this or they’re not good at this. That’s part of the story that’s coming up. That’s, there’s, there’s reasons you feel that way that are from your past or your nature or whatever.

Just trust me that you can, like, you can build your literacy here. And in fact, I really encourage you to do that. Like, In any way that you can get it, just start to learn more and learn more. You’re not going to be there overnight. It’s an evolution, but if you don’t ever start, then you’ll never feel strong in that point.

And if you don’t feel strong about that, if you don’t feel confident in that, you’ll never grow the business that you have in your head right now. You’ll never match the dream. So if you just start building that literacy and you’re doing some of this work, either mindset and practical, a little bit of both, over time, you’ll build that knowledge.

Nobody knows how to do that when they first start their business. We all build that over time. And this is the same like anything else. You’re learning how to market it. You’re learning how to build a website. You’re learning how to edit photos. Like, you didn’t know how to do those things before you started.

It’s the same thing. And just learning that will build your trust, and build your self worth, build your confidence, and it all goes together. Hand in hand.

Sabrina: And I would add one more plug to that. You spoke to the people, to the person who feels like they don’t understand and feels confused by it and it’s very unknown.

I want to speak to the person who does pay attention to their numbers, who does like the spreadsheets, who feels like they’ve got a really solid handle of things. Maybe they already do their own QuickBooks, who’s hearing this and they’re like, but I already have a really solid handle on this stuff.

Here’s the thing. So did I. Okay. Okay. I come from a corporate background where numbers and spreadsheets were my job projections were literally my job. And then I brought that knowledge into entrepreneurship and was doing really great on my own, but I was curious about what is leveling up. With money look like for me, what could somebody like Kelly offer me?

And I went into it truly thinking like, we’re going to try this, see how it goes. Just like, just like hiring any support person. It’s, I wasn’t marrying you. I was dating you, you know, and now, now I’m married to you, but I don’t

Kelly: look at my face. I’m like, wait,

Sabrina: you don’t have to, you don’t have to say, I’m going try absolutely with somebody like this forever.

So go into it with curiosity of, could I learn something that could take me to the next level? And that’s what I did. Um, and obviously, you know, it’s gone well and I’ve loved it. Thank you for that

Kelly: perspective too.

Sabrina: Yeah. Okay. This has been such a fun chat. I do want to end with a few fun questions that are not about money mindset or numbers.

Um, I love to end this just so the audience can get to know you a little bit better. Kelly, what’s your favorite, your current favorite guilty pleasure? Take care.

Kelly: Oh gosh. I have to admit that it’s TikTok. Yeah. It’s just so like everybody’s so many people say it’s

Sabrina: the TikTok. I know. What, what is, what does TikTok feed you?

Like what do you love to consume over there? It’s

Kelly: uh, Taylor Swift. It’s politics. Yes. It’s dogs and it’s art.

Sabrina: Yes. Okay. Um, my whole TikTok is Taylor Swift lure and

Kelly: I wasn’t even a Taylor Swift. I’m like, I’m the generation like above you. I wasn’t a Taylor Swift fan until TikTok. It was, yeah.

Sabrina: TikTok is like her best marketing tool that she doesn’t even control. Um, Yeah. TikTok feeds me a lot of the Taylor Swift and it just has absolutely sucked me in and the lure and all the things, but I love it.

I eat it up it anyways. And then recently we’re recording this in the summer, even, or even though this is airing in October recently, it’s been serving me. All of the college sorority rush stuff. Oh, interesting. Which is interesting. I don’t know if that’s a lot of the Swifties like that as well. Although they’re not on

Kelly: mine, the politics might be bumping them out of mind.

Sabrina: It served it to me and I’ve been consuming that too. You’re not alone in TikTok being your favorite guilty pleasure. Okay. What’s the next vacation that you have planned?

Kelly: Uh, we leave tomorrow and we’re going to, uh, Minnesota of all places to visit a place where my, of a YouTuber that my daughter’s been following for five years.

So she’s going to get to meet this YouTuber, it’s called snake discovery. She’s a little animal girl. So that’s

Sabrina: fun. And you know what? One of my best friends from high school, they went there this summer to do the same thing because he and he is, he just turned 10 and her kids on their 10th birthday, they get to go on a birthday trip.

And that’s where he chose to go because same reason. And he’s such like an insect nature kiddo. And she was like, you know, one of her kids wanted to go to New York. One of them wanted to go to Disneyland. She’s like, he wants to go to Minnesota. And they had a blast. We’ve

Kelly: never been there, so we’re really excited about it.

They had a

Sabrina: blast. The weather should be delightful. So, okay, that’s exciting. And I’m curious if you have something up your sleeve for later this year or next year coming in your business. Or in your life. We’re

Kelly: working on, we do have a couple things. But probably the one that’s closer to fruition is we’re actually starting a little Etsy page to offer some of the digital tools that we do.

So that we’re able to share those with more people. Yeah.

Sabrina: So fun. Did you know that I used to have an Etsy shop? I did not. Okay. So there was, there was a small window of time after I left my corporate job, before I started my photography business, where I was an Etsy seller for like two years. And this was back in OG Etsy, like they did advertising before there was like an algorithm when it was truly.

So it was different, But, um, I ran a little business over there and that was my first stab at entrepreneurship. And anyway, so we

Kelly: might

Sabrina: stand

Kelly: it up on something else down the road, but we wanted the least it’s easy. That’s what we want it just to get things out there and we’ll see where it goes.

Sabrina: Cool.

That’s really exciting. Um, okay. Last question. What is a business tool or hack that you are loving right now?

Kelly: I’m going to give two, but one everybody knows Voxer, like I’d still my favorite thing in the world. Me too. I It’s just so good for communicating. I’m going to share just cause it’s timely or appropriate for our conversation, relay bank relay, which we don’t even have you in, but you have one that’s similar.

It’s just a really good profit first friendly bank. So if you are somebody that’s like, Ooh, this sounds good. Check out relay, um, not to do a commercial for them, but you can do your allocations by percentage on there. They have savings accounts now where you can earn some interest. They just are super business friendly.

So, um, I’ll share that as a tool.

Sabrina: Yeah, that’s a great one. I love that. Um, we have found a lot of, there’s a lot of online banking options that will really serve you, um, in the profit first arena. Um, and that’s definitely part of the process is finding one that will work for you. So, um, that’s awesome. Kelly, this has been such a good chat.

I knew it was going to be so fun. Before we go, will you share with the listeners how they can work with you or where they can find you?

Kelly: Well, we have our website is TerraCare, T E R R A C A R E, financial. com. Um, probably by the time they hear this, we’ll have our Sacred Money Archetype quiz out there that they can take for free.

And then they’ll be on our mailing list and things from there. You can also find me on Instagram. Um, And I’m sure you’ll put these things in the show notes. We also have a Facebook group, prosperous and profitable conscious entrepreneurs. So those are the best ways.

Sabrina: Okay. Awesome. This has been a great chat.

Uh, I can’t wait to hear the feedback and I know it’s going to be really, really positive. My friend, thank you for your time. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Such a pleasure. All right. We’ll see you next time. My friends. Thanks so much for listening to the shoot it straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at Sabrina Gephardt.

com backslash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gephardt photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review until next time, my friends shoot it straight.