169: Navigating Big Business Transitions with Guests Melissa Arlena and Alison Bell

Sabrina: Welcome to the Shoot at Straight podcast, where honesty meets heart and real talk actually means something. I’m your host, Sabrina Gebhart, and each week we get vulnerable, practical, and just a little bit bold so you can feel seen, supported, and ready to take the next step in your photography journey.

Let’s go. Welcome back to the Shoot at Straight Podcast Friends. Today. I have two guests with me and I’m really excited to speak with them both. I first heard these ladies chatting with my friend Coley James on the Business First Creatives podcast, and I thought to myself, yes. I need to talk with them as well, which it, the listeners know that happens a lot.

I, I go, you know, poach a lot of guests from my friend Coley because she’s got great people, so why not, you know? But before we dive into our conversation today, I would love for you both to introduce yourself. So Alison, why don’t you go first?

Alison Bell: Yes. Hey, I am Allison Bell. I am a family destination and newborn photographer currently.

Based in Oahu, Hawaii. Um, I am married to the Marine Corps. We’ve been active duty family of four, I can’t remember how long. I think 16 years. 16 and a half years. Um, I’ve been a photographer for 14 years and I have moved my business because of the Marine Corps seven times. Um, and so I have relaunched, um, multiple times every time, more and more successful figuring this whole charade out.

Uh, I have four boys. They’ve informed my entire approach to, in philosophy, to photography from both sides of the camera.

Sabrina: I love it. Yeah. Melissa, what about you?

Melissa Arlena: I also am a newborn photographer. Um, I’ve been in business for about 17 years. Started off in weddings, switched over to newborns, and uh, now a lot of my time is spent helping other photographers with their SEO.

Sabrina: Yeah. Which is awesome. Um, you’re so good at what you do. So this episode is airing. We’re in November and we’ve got about six weeks left in the year. Photographers are hopefully, hopefully with air quotes, wrapping up their busy season, and in my experience, coaching women and just in the photographer community.

This is when a lot of them start to have that stirring that something needs to change, right? They’re not happy with what they’re doing or who they’re serving, how they’re running their business. Like they start to really feel pulled to like something needs to change. Something needs to happen. And so today we’re gonna talk about these transitions.

And you two are perfect for this conversation because Allison, like you said, you’ve moved your business a million times and Melissa has experienced going through the niching down and all that entails with that. And so we’re gonna get kind of two sides of this transitioning story from you today, which I’m really excited.

Those transitions on the surface, they’re different, but they’re actually really similar. A change is, they really are. Yeah. A change is a change is a change and it requires change in perspective, change in marketing, how you’re doing things, how you’re thinking about things. It kind of doesn’t matter what, how big or small the change, quote change is.

They’re really all similar. And so I wanna start off with like kind of your origin story of where your big change was and. Tell me a little bit about what was happening before this shift and what prompted the changes or made you decide to make these changes. So, who wants to dive in first?

Alison Bell: Mine’s pretty deep.

I can go, it might be a little long-winded, might have to cut this out, but, um, I think my, my change was many small changes over many, many years. I’ve always been a photographer back to eighth grade and a Girl Scout badge. Then I married a Marine and had a baby, really had multiple babies really fast. And so I remember the moment I was sitting in my aunt’s kitchen and I can’t remember if it was my mom, my aunt, and they were like, well, you can be a photographer anywhere.

And like my 22-year-old self was like, yeah, I can just like a nurse, you can just pick up and just go be, do what you want, wherever you are. I was like, I’m gonna do this. I’m, I’m gonna go do this. I’m gonna be a photographer for families and I’m gonna, um, this is gonna be my business. Fast forward to our first PCS, right?

Mm-hmm. So at the time, we moved to North Carolina, then we moved to Alabama. We had a couple more babies while we were in Alabama, and I was for the first time, not in a military town, and I was like, this is a lot harder than I thought. This is a thing, like trying to get people to recognize my expertise, figure out who I am, know that I exist.

An uphill battle. It was more than word of mouth. I mean, in North Carolina, a military family, everybody’s looking for everything, right? The pediatrician, who’s gonna cut my hair, who does color, who does, you know, nobody knows anybody. The revolving door is your friend. And then while we were in Alabama, I just remember things were taking off, things were getting steady.

About a year before we were slated to move. And I remember I was at a like a spouse event for at the church. I remember having this like kind of epiphany. I just want to be able to add to my family’s bottom line, not take away from it. And I felt like everything that gave me joy or peace or I, I felt like I was just another like line item on the budget.

Like everything I enjoyed was just another thing in the budget. Another thing to have to buy another thing I have to whether even if it’s like quilting for my babies, right? Like babies, it was something that had to be bought. And so I just remember just being like, I just as a spouse just want to add to my family’s pockets.

Not take away from, that’s all I wanna do. I just wanna be able to contribute. And that was a huge motivator because I finally felt like I had a stable, predictable income, albeit a very young one, and not, not very profitable. Right before we moved away from Alabama just to move to, um, Missouri for six months where I didn’t do a whole lot.

And then really things came to a head in Okinawa when we were overseas in Japan. And so things just kept growing and growing and I just was like. I want more, I want more. I want more freedom. Why can’t I match my husband’s income? Why can’t I have more clients? Why can’t they spend more money? Why can’t I have more freedom?

And, and it all comes down to more and money. And how do we do that? And really, I think it, for myself personally, it was. There’s a lot of limiting beliefs. Um, and I, I think this is really common in the military spouse community. Like, well, we don’t need the money. Everybody knows how much we make. Like I can’t charge that much.

Like all the things I’ve experienced in a walkthrough. And Melissa can tell you firsthand, she has been my, like, guiding light and, and sounding board and voice of reason, like, about some of that baloney. But I just, I just kept was motivated for more, more, more, more, more. There’s got to be a better way. And there is, there is, and I feel like I have to like coach all my, um, my fellow military spouses to just be like.

You can charge more. You should charge more. This is custom artwork. I don’t care if they’re military or not. I don’t care that you need it or not. Like there’s value in what you’re providing.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, I think there was a big eye-opening moment for Allison of one of her clients who she took pictures in Okinawa, moved to where I was and I took their family photos and I think I charged like three times what she charged at that time and they paid it.

And I was like, girl, they paid it. I was like, they didn’t question it, they paid it. And she was like, all right, that’s it.

Sabrina: Wow. So with every move you had, it sounds like not only did you refine like getting a business set up and like the legi, the marketing logistics and finding people, but like. Your confidence and you had mindset shifts and just kind of grew

Alison Bell: all kinds of mindset shifts and just the, the confidence and the, and the like, just cutting through the BS of like, am I worth this?

Am I capable of this? I think that one, that’s half of it, or maybe even more than half of it. Um, but also the planning, the strategy behind it, because you’ve done enough to build up a business, whether it’s profitable or not, whether it’s as much as you want or not, if you’ve built up a business. You’ve done the work once, you can do it again.

You can do it three times. You can do it and you can do it better. And every time you do it, no matter where you are, no. Whether you’re pivoting a genre, a business structure, because that’s one thing I did in my last CD station is I completely went. I went from all inclusive to a hybrid of all inclusive to virtual IPS.

All in the same duty station. So that was the same client. I’m quote unquote the same clientele, same place, same, same, a lot, a lot of stuff. I didn’t wait for a duty station change to, to kind of have a, a clean slate, so to speak. I just pulled the plug and was like, this is what’s happening, because I was so sick of it.

Sabrina: Melissa, I’m gonna ask you, I wanna hear your origin story. Where were you when you decided to niche down? What was your business like? What was going on in your head? What prompted you to make the big change?

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, so like most photographers, well, not most, but like a lot of photographers, I got into photography, you know, a long time ago in school and stuff, and then when I was getting married I discovered the wide, wonderful world of wedding photography.

And it was not like my parents’ wedding photos, you know? It was details and pretty and just, and I was like, Ooh. And so I was like, I wanna do this. And so I did. So I started my business doing weddings. I think I started, initially I did the whole like, let’s post on Craigslist and let’s just put it out there for 50 bucks and I’ll shoot whatever.

And then I started second shooting, and then I was like, oh no, I really like weddings. So then I started just doing weddings. And I did that for many years until I had babies. Then it came down to actually, I think, uh, I was pregnant like two back-to-back seasons of weddings and stuff. So a lot of my clients now are hilarious.

When they see my kids are having a birthday, they’re like, no way. I remember when you were pregnant. So now, um, they hit a point where my oldest was going off to kindergarten and I realized if I was gone on the weekends, I would never see him. And so I was like, that’s it. I, nope, I don’t wanna do weddings anymore.

I’m tired of being away from my family. And so I decided to switch to Lifestyle Newborn, um, because we had had lifestyle photos done, um, when our boys were little and I loved them. And so I was like, I never wanted to do posed baby. I’m like, I can’t get my kids to sleep. Why do you think I can get yours?

Like, that’s not happening. So, you know, we ended up. Switching over to lifestyle Newborn and you know, it was a huge transition too because some of my clients were having babies, so I’d photographed them before, but I mean, past client referrals aren’t necessarily like gonna fill up your calendar kind of thing.

And so I needed new clients and I needed to find more clients and stuff. Um, and I had used SEO to build my wedding photography business. Now I was basically starting from scratch ’cause all of my keywords were junk at that point. ’cause I didn’t wanna book that stuff anymore. Um, so I had to make all of that transition and everything and then, you know, kind of figure out how I wanted to do it.

And even from that process. Getting started with newborns, getting my SEO going and stuff. I hit a point where I had to go get a part-time job for a while because I didn’t have any income coming in. And it was like, Nope, you gotta have some kind of income. And so I did social media for a jewelry store for like a year, year and a half.

And then I hit a point where my husband was like, you gotta quit the jewelry store. He’s like, you’re, you know, hamstringing yourself on the photography side, like you’re not able to book as many sessions and stuff. And then it was funny because. I hit a point where, um, I was booking out like crazy and then COVID hit, which actually was great for me.

I don’t know about other newborn photographers, but I had tons of clients and tons of work. And then I hit a point of going, I am kind of hemmed in by being all inclusive, that the only way to make more money is to do more work and I don’t wanna do more work. Which sounds really bad when I say it like that, but you know, I don’t know what it is about us.

We feel guilty of saying, well, I wanna make more money, you know? And so it was like, I wanna make more money. I don’t wanna work. I wanna take on more sessions to do that. And so at that point I transitioned my pricing and stuff. Um, I did, um, a friend of ours on’s, uh, simple sales system. And so then I went and like, I tripled my rates practically overnight kind of thing.

And it was, it’s that whole thing. Once you get that first booking at that new rate, you’re like, ah, what have I been doing? And so then I kind of kept going from there. And like Allison, I’ve had a few moves after that too and stuff. So it’s just, and I’ve kind of narrowed in each time on like. What do I wanna do?

And even where I’m at right now, I’ve kind of hit a point where I’m like, I don’t really wanna do families unless you’re a membership client. Like, no offense, but I just, I’m niching down. Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina: I’ve gone through the niching, uh, several times. I’ve, I went through the same thing you did, Melissa, when my daughter went off to kindergarten, I’d never did weddings, but I had a real shocking realization just about my schedule and like, I can’t fill all of my weekends with family sessions or newborn sessions.

I’m gonna have to shift like what my availability is. And at the time I, this was, you know, 13 years ago, so it was, wait, this is a really long time ago, but I basically wrote a blog post and sent it out to my email list and I was like, this is what’s on my heart. This is what’s changing. You know, and I’m super lucky that my, my clientele was like very understanding and they were all in on it, which was great.

But I had that same realization of like, oh wait, I can’t keep going like this, or I’ll never see my child, you know? Which is so scary because they grow up so fast.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, and I would say clients and stuff, I’ve always found clients have been respectful of my boundaries, because when I send out that reply to an inquiry email, I tell them right away, I am not available on weekends.

That’s my family time. And I just put it in parentheses, right in there. And I’ve gotten emails back that people are like, I love that you protect your family time and no one argues with it. I’ve had like maybe one or two people over the years who have asked and been like, Hey, I understand it. Is there any way?

But they’re very respectful about how they’re asking and stuff. Otherwise, it’s only weekdays. It’s

Sabrina: so funny. I don’t know why photographers think that it has to be evenings and weekends. I tell people that. I coach I, I tell people that I coach all the time. I’m like. People will miss work and school for a zillion other reasons.

Why can’t we be one of those reasons? And same thing, Melissa. I’ve told people so many times over the years and everybody totally respects the decision because they’re also moms. Like they get it. They are our people. They understand. The few times I will make, um, exceptions is like, you know, my husband’s a surgeon and he’s on whatever, like really specific things.

And I get that. It’s, it’s like, why are we so afraid to set that boundary? Because they, they’re moms just like us. They understand like family time and sports and you know, all of that. It says limiting beliefs that we get up in our head and we start making rules that don’t exist. Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So I want to talk about the logistics of going through these transitions. So something prompts you to make a move niche down, change who your ideal client is, make a pivot in your offerings. Whatever this transition is, there are logistics involved. Like we would be silly to say there’s not, there’s logistics involved depending on how big the transition is.

There’s more than others. Um, so talk to me about that and let’s specifically talk about like the marketing logistics. Things that had to change for each of you in those transitions. So, Allison, why don’t you go first?

Alison Bell: So first, there has to be a decision. Sometimes, like in my case, that decision’s made for me.

I’m moving, this is where I’m going. I’m told where I’m going and when I’ve talked to a lot of photographers who have a choice of when they go and where they go or what they’re gonna pivot to or when they’re gonna pivot. That is kind of a kiss of death. Like you need a drop dead decision. You need a drop dead decision, whether it be a date, the genre you’re pivoting to, the day you’re leaving, the day you’re pulling the plug on your new place.

Like you need a decision. And, and maybe that’s the hardest part for some people, but if without that decision you cannot have follow through, you don’t know when you’re gonna do this or do that, or make a marketing calendar or reverse engineer your timeline first, you gotta decide. Um, so in my case. My decisions are made for me and I work backwards.

I reverse what’s my po I will work until the time I am leaving. A lot of times I, it’s impossible for me to go back to a previous duty station. Sometimes it is. I have done that before. We went to, from Virginia Beach to Quantico area a couple times. As far as marketing, you can’t start early enough. You cannot.

So whether it’s archiving old genres or archiving old, um, older locations, or it’s starting in the new place in terms of learning your locations, learning your new, your permitting processes, getting into those Facebook groups, you just can’t start early enough. There’s a ton. There’s a ton to be done. And really the hardest part of moving in in these logistics is you will be running two businesses for a time.

You will be setting up in Hawaii. Continuing to run and work in Virginia Beach until the 11th hour. I mean, I took a, I took a military ceremony while we were still in hotel about to leave Virginia Beach because I don’t know when I’m getting hired again. So bring it on and I’ll work and work and edit that and, but I’m, I’m honest.

I’m like, Hey, you know. It’s gonna be a month before you get these back. If that’s okay. Let’s, let’s keep going. I

Sabrina: think that’s a really, I think that’s a really great point about having a firm decision, because I see that too, like when the firm decision is not there, the fire is not there. Like it’s just, and then like we said, that mindset gets in the way, especially when you’re in the decision of like nicheing.

You know, and you’re like, well, I’m not gonna take weddings anymore. But then of course the universe is gonna present you with some high dollar, like that’s the first thing you’re gonna get, right? And it’s like, are you going to say no? Are you going to say yes and beat yourself up over it later? Having to like make the decision, rip the bandaid

Alison Bell: off.

And that’s the plan. And even if you do make that decision and rip the, it doesn’t mean you can’t take that really nice high dollar thing at the same time. You’re just not gonna show up. You’re not gonna talk about it, you’re not gonna blog it. Like if that hurts your heart, like. Sorry. Sorry, not sorry, right?

Like, but it doesn’t mean just because you made this hard and fast decision. If this fits your schedule and you can manage it without beating yourself up, then do it. You know, like.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, when I was leaving weddings, I left up the weddings that I was like, if it’s waterfront and it’s like on private property and it’s like a small, intimate family affair, I will still shoot that a hundred percent.

I love those types of weddings, and that’s a different type of client and stuff. I’m like, so I, I left those on my website, but I got rid of everything that was in a barn or a church or anything like that. I’m like, look. You know, if you want me as your wedding photographer, like there, it’s gotta be really specific at that point.

And at that time I was doing model calls and stuff to grow newborns. So I agree with Alison though, like you’ve really gotta make that that decision and figure it out. Because I’ve talked to clients too who are like, well, we’re thinking about moving next year. And I’m like, as soon as you know, you’re moving, as soon as you know, you wanna pivot as soon as you wanna do that.

Because if I had thought about it a year prior to Will, going off to kindergarten, I could have started my SEO and my marketing then. Instead of waiting until the 11th hour, it’s like, oh gosh, he leaves in four months to start kindergarten. I, I don’t wanna do this anymore. Like, that was too late. Like, and that’s why I needed that time and had to go get the part-time job because I hadn’t started early enough.

So I would say if anybody’s thinking about a transition, start it now. Like even at, at some point, if you wanna back out of it, you’re like, well, turns out don’t like newborns. You know, you could at that point, backpedal and stuff. But even like with SEO, I tell people, I’m like, if you wait six months, you’re six months behind because it just takes time.

All of your marketing is gonna take time to build up,

Sabrina: right? So. We talked about, you guys mentioned like getting in the Facebook groups, changing SEO archiving things or posting new things. Is there anything else, uh, like logistically marketing speaking, that can be done early that they should be thinking

Alison Bell: about?

All that should be done early, like researching. I mean, we all have Google Earth. You can research locations, you can research, um, popular photography spots. I personally, so in addition to all the stuff that you can do online that you just mentioned. I really like, and I’ve only gotten to do it one time. A like a scouting trip before you actually go, like going to your place.

Spend a week, look at the places, like come in as a mom wanting to get a, get photos done. And where would you go? Where, what would, what would you want if you were your client? In setting things up that way. Like I, when I came out to Hawaii, I talked with insurance agents, I talked to um, uh, some people with the state.

That was mostly via email, but there’s, Hawaii has a reputation for being very specific with their permitting and insurance policies. I, I actually did mini sessions. I came out here and did mini sessions for free, so I didn’t have to have a business license. I didn’t have to do any of that rigamarole, but it gave me experience, it gave me content, and it gave me clients.

So there’s a lot of reasons to come out to go to your new place and scope it out as a potential client. I love that.

Sabrina: I would think that also just visually like get laying eyes on your place and like getting to start building the portfolio is huge, but also getting to see like lighting in different areas and colors and just not going in as blind.

Melissa Arlena: Even just having those images for your portfolio because coming from Allison is funny ’cause she went from Japan to Virginia Beach to Hawaii, so she kind of had beach stuff even though they looked different. Although I think Japan and Oahu, she was able to like interchange for a little while. But I went from fields of Virginia and like the Potomac River to South Florida.

And it was like, so I put every picture I had that had water in it up on my website for that time being till I could get down there and start getting actual, like South Florida beaches. It did not look the same, but it still was okay. It helped me book things. So if you’re, if you’re changing genres or you’re moving locations, like you do need to get stuff into your portfolio, and that’s where those model calls.

You’ve gotta get something on there that’s gonna show, like, this is where I’m going with this. And I imagine

Sabrina: the same thing as applying when you’re niching, uh, like changing what your portfolio looks like to reflect said niche. And if you don’t have that work, if it’s a new niche that you’re picking up, that’s where you’re doing like model calls and, and doing that so that you can have something to show.

Yeah.

Melissa Arlena: I just had the conversation with my husband the other night and I was like, where I was saying, you know, I don’t wanna do family sessions anymore. I said, you know, I’m okay with extended family. I said, I kind of just want that. Like, hey. If you wanna book an extended family session, I’m good with that.

I love extended family sessions and I have a page for it and a package for it on my website. And I was like, I think at this point I may just change my keyword over to that, like put my family keyword for the area on that page and kind of just show that. And if somebody’s like, oh, we just want a family session for a family of four, be like, that’s not really what I do.

I do extended family, so show up with 20 people and then we’ll be good.

Sabrina: Yeah, I love that. So. What about red flags? What about that somebody’s in a transition, whether they’re niching, moving or something else, and what are signs that things aren’t going well or they’ve missed a step? Uh, something isn’t going as planned.

They might need to make a shift in kind of their strategy.

Alison Bell: Crickets. That’s the first one. Like if you’re not getting any traction, um, something that everybody needs to be tracking whether you’re moving or not, is your, your Google rankings. I mean, that’s the most black and white objective information that you can use.

And you can use that no matter what you’re doing. Um, so if you’re not seeing improvement there, if you’re not seeing, if you’re not getting traction in your rankings, like. Something’s gotta give.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah. I mean, if you’re not getting inquiries and stuff, you know, then you’ve gotta figure out, okay, have I, have I spent time on my SEO?

Is that not working? Or have I been posting in Facebook groups, but they’re the wrong ones? Am I bringing in the wrong clients? I think it really starts in your inbox of looking at that and if nothing’s showing up there, you know, in the short term, and Alison and I have talked about this before, you know, with SEO taking time, then there’s a lot of things that you’ve also gotta be doing in the, in the meantime.

So you are on social media, you are in Facebook groups, you are trying to build your email list. You know, and asking for referrals from people or reaching out to local businesses to try and, you know, get on their referral lists and stuff. Yeah. Collaborations. If none of that’s working, then you’ve gotta go back to, okay, is my website good?

Like am I, is there a mismatch with the clientele? Yeah. You could be speaking to the wrong clientele when it comes to pricing. I won’t necessarily say there’s a mistake on pricing, but if your pricing doesn’t match your website and match your work, then that can be a mismatch and you need to adjust that.

You may wanna say, okay. Hey, I think there was a time in South Florida. I pulled my pricing off my website just to get inquiries, and then I got inquiries and then I was like, these are terrible. And I put my pricing right back on and I was

Alison Bell: like, I’m not doing any more of these phone calls. There’s so many of those things.

Yeah, because I think a lot of people, and Melissa, you probably see this a lot where people, I did my SEO, but it’s been three months. Take a chill pill like you, that’s gonna take 18 months easy, you know, six months to a year easy, um, to see any traction on that. So like, you gotta evaluate, like, okay, even if you have done your SEO, you gotta walk away from it for a minute and just keep, keep your regularity up.

But like, you’re just gonna have to trust and pray at that point. Like Melissa said, there’s so many other things you can be doing in the meantime, which is why you want to start so much earlier. You know, you wanna be doing all this stuff before you even left your, your previous duty station or location, city, what have you, so that you can continue to work in your current city.

And then by the time you start getting that traction and, and Google starts realizing that you’re reliable for this new place and those inquiries are starting to trickle in. So just for an example, I, so it was 20 fall of 22 that we knew we were gonna go to Hawaii and I started. I started researching, doing all that stuff for my blogs.

I started blogging in the winter of 23, um, so like January, February of 23 and March. Did my scouting trip, uh, came over, did a little scouting trip. I actually physically moved the summer of 23, and I had my first inquiry in September, like my first paid client in September, so that was 30 days after actually launching in Hawaii.

But that was an easy six to eight months worth of work before that ever happened, right? And I wasn’t even top, uh, page one of Google for a year.

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Melissa Arlena: Yeah. I had a client, I remember, um, my SEO was kicking it, you know, I started that in February. We moved in June, and I had a client who actually booked me from Instagram because I knew I wasn’t gonna be on page one yet.

So I was working Instagram as much as I could at that time for the short term. And so, you know, within a few months of being down there, I mean, I booked it before we even got down there. I had that client on the books and stuff for a membership. So, yeah.

Sabrina: A lot of it is being willing to be like the scrappy new business again and like do everything.

It’s, it’s funny that you guys mention that because I’ve coached a lot of women through one transition or another, and there’s always this piece where they’re in the new niche or they’re in the new location and they’re doing quote unquote everything, but they’re in that frustrated pause. Right. It’s just part of it.

Right. It’s just part of it. It’s right, it’s before everything takes off. But when they’re in that waiting period, and I’m just continuing to encourage them that like keep showing up, keep talking to neighbors, meet people, go to the businesses, like be in the groups, like do things, you know? But what I almost always hear is this layer of frustration that like.

I’m be, I’m better than that. I’m beyond that. I don’t, I’ve done this before. Right? Like, like I’m not a beginner again, why does, and I’m like, but this is new.

Melissa Arlena: Well, but that’s the thing. I mean, especially starting over, you know, moving to a new location, you know, okay, you’ve already got a portfolio. So that’s the only way you are different from somebody brand new starting there, is that you happen to already have photos.

But when I hit that point in South Florida, Allison will tell you like we started the podcast because we’ve been ping for years, and we just decided to take our polos public. And I was messaging her and I’m like, I’ve done all the things. I’m doing all this. This is this. And she’s like, stop and go. Unpack your boxes.

And like I needed her to tell me like, walk away from the business right now because you can’t change anything in this moment. So go do something else. Go unpack the boxes, make your house, your home, that kind of thing. And focus on that right now. And sure enough, yeah, by the time we left and stuff, um, you know, I was booking like crazy and it was like, here we go again.

Yeah. There is that,

Sabrina: that period of like, you’ve done everything. Then it’s outta your hands. You know what I mean? Where you just have to wait for SEO to catch up or people to catch onto your name or whatever that may be. I would love to think about the person who kind of knows the transition is coming.

Again, circling back to the intro, like it’s the end of the year. People are like, I don’t wanna do newborns anymore or weddings anymore, or are families deciding to move or whatever that is. Somebody knows that a transition is coming. Um, Allison, you said like from an SEO perspective, you know, you’re talking 12 months plus, give or take.

How is that, how long we realistically think from starting to make changes to like having regular bookings again? Is there a general timeline?

Alison Bell: I mean it, it depends on how early you start and it depends on so many things. And I mean your website, your domain authority, how much, how much you were getting search traffic for your previous place, that how long it’s gonna take, the competitive nature of your new location, right?

Like I went from a pretty high authority in Virginia Beach to a very competitive market in, in Hawaii, and it took a full year plus to be number one on Google. At least nine months to show up on the first page within the first top five results. So a hundred percent, absolutely. Now I was getting some inquiries, but I was doing a lot of things to, to mitigate.

I was in those Facebook groups. I had a military community I was creating, it was a fall as well. And so I was creating these like extra offers that were more appealing to a different, to a broader audience, to keep me one looking busy, me getting experience in these new locations with the sun and the seasons because the sun is the same sun everywhere.

But it changes all year long. And so it takes a full 12 months to understand your light and shadows and where things fall, um, all year. And so I still wanted to be shooting, I still wanted to be getting that, that expertise, and so I was creating extra, extra packages for that. But yeah, it, it takes. A long time.

Melissa Arlena: I think we’ve said, what about 18 months is what Alison and I have noticed from the time you move to when, like things are good, you’re booking solidly, you’ve got your rankings, you’ve all that work you’ve done is paying off and now things are rolling. But I mean, as she’s talked about, you know, and stuff, there’s a lot, there’s a lot that we do and stuff in that timeframe to get that ball rolling.

It’s, you can’t just do one thing, you unfortunately, you’ve gotta do all the things. Yeah, yeah.

Sabrina: Do

Melissa Arlena: you think the same timeline applies to changing a niche? Yes. ’cause that was the same thing that happened for me when I switched from weddings to newborns. Like I said, I ended up going and getting a part-time job and it was about 18 months.

And then 18 months I was page one of Google and my calendar was booking out. So that’s, I would say probably 12 months. It’s starting to get better. You’re like, okay, like I’m starting to get some inquiries here and there. But 18 months was like that solid over and over again where like now things are rolling, we’re back in business.

Like things are really good and that

Alison Bell: happened for me and so. Right before we left, uh, Hawaii, that last year, I was wanting to do, we, all our kids were in, I, I went from homeschooling to everybody in school for the first time as well in Virginia Beach. And so I did something similar to no success. I was trying to get more of those daytime newborn sessions too, for the same reasons my kids are, are in school for the first time.

My adult, adult life, I wanna go work during the day, and so I was pushing, I was already in Virginia Beach. I’d been there for two and a half years. I was a number one family photographer ranking, and here I am trying to just push the newborn page with the newborn stuff. I pushed hard for a year and I never got there.

I never got very many inquiries. I did the model call, I did a giveaway, I did a collaboration. I did everything we talk about. And I think I, I got a couple paid newborns that year, and I’m talking like, like full school calendar year. It did not work because we left, right? Like I quit, you know, I quit before I crested that peak.

And saw results from it. So yeah, a hundred percent it absolutely, even if you’re staying in the same place, I would say it even still applies to attracting your ideal client, going from all inclusive to in-person sales model. Like the same thing, like even if you stay in your genre and you stay in your location, those are two very different audiences that are wanting those services.

You’re starting over. Yeah.

Sabrina: So big transitions, 18 months plan on it. 18 months of putting your head down, doing all of the scrappy things, all of the technical things you should be doing. And waiting. And waiting. Okay. Okay. I love that. You know, and to some people, 18 months may seem really long. It’s not, and especially if you know that that’s what to expect.

I could tell myself today, okay, we’re gonna do this and for 18 months we’re gonna work hard and then it’s gonna work and I think I’d be ready to go. It’s about

Alison Bell: 50% of a average duty station. So it is. So for some people in, in the military community, it’s 50% of the time that you’re in a single place.

That’s hard. That’s incredibly hard when you don’t have more than three years in one place. And then you’re talking like the, the luxury of Hawaii is that there’s, it’s summer year round. I, my work for the first time in my life is year round. It’s amazing and freeing. But when you only get three fall seasons and that first one’s a total dud, that’s, that’s some serious, that’s a serious gut check that that’s demoralizing.

It’s depressing. It’s why the heck even try. And that’s that. And that’s why I, I love the podcast. I love doing the podcast. I like sharing This is because most military spouses, one, have the limiting belief that they don’t, they’re not worthy of making more money or matching their husband’s income. They can’t do it or that it’s just not worth it.

And it can be, it really can be. And you just need somebody to encourage you and talk life into it. And that’s what I hope I’m trying to do.

Sabrina: I love that. Okay, so you guys have had a lot of changes and transitions over the years. I would love to know like, like the good and bad, like things that worked really well and things that did not work really well.

Um, if you’ve got, yeah, if you’ve got any stories.

Melissa Arlena: Things you tried. I guess for, obviously for me, SEO is always the thing that works really well, but I’m trying to think like what didn’t work. And I think it’s in those moments, Alison, we did an episode recently about all the different like jobs or something we had done and as Alison was, oh, ways to find new clients, I think is what it was.

And as Alison was listing stuff off, I was like, oh yeah, I remember doing that. And I remember doing that and I remember doing that and it was like stuff that I remember shooting, like Google business profile pictures for businesses and I was contracted to a company or something for something like that.

Those are things that they don’t, I mean, they weren’t gonna work, but they got me through in like kind of that, that mid-range and stuff. I’m trying to, I, I feel like for me, things that didn’t work, I think it was probably, I remember doing my first set of like beach mid sessions in South Florida and not realizing that the beach was going to be incredibly crowded on a Saturday and super windy.

And I was like, this is the worst thing I’ve ever done in my life. What am I doing? I never did minis after that because it was so bad. Traumatizing. It was so bad and so, you know, it was, it was stuff like that that it’s like, well, if I had done like a scouting trip ahead of time, maybe. If I talked to anybody, they were probably would’ve said, yeah, Melissa, you need to be like, actually, for South Florida, what I realized is the best time to be at the beach is, um, November through May, not May through November.

And so like even that stuff, like, I just didn’t know it because that’s opposite of opposite land from what I’m used

Alison Bell: to. And that’s just living, that’s just living there and being, so going back to, you know, once you get there and you’re in that waiting period, you, you need to live your life and be a human in your space so you can ultimately become a local expert.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina: Was there anything that you guys tried that surprisingly worked well because I, I think, again, going back to the being scrappy and being willing to try anything, do anything, get your name out there. A lot of it is like collaborations, connections with people reaching out, trying this kind of session or this kind of session or this model call or blah blah.

You’re doing everything. Was there anything that either of you have tried that you were like, I’m gonna give this a shot and then it actually.

Melissa Arlena: Went really well. Yeah, when I first started, I did venue in interviews for weddings and so I couldn’t get on their, I, you know, I didn’t have a portfolio. I couldn’t call them up and say, Hey, add me to your venue list, your preferred vendor list.

So I instead, I reached out and I said, Hey, I would love to do an article on your venue where you talk about all the amazing things about having a wedding there. I’m gonna send you the questions, and then I would go out for like a little day trip, take pictures of the venue. Start blogging those things.

And so that worked so well for me to start getting bookings at weddings. I had a girl who was planning from overseas and she said, every venue I looked at, you had an article on page one of Google from being there. And so I took that over to portraits and stuff when I started with newborn sessions and I started interviewing doulas and midwives and maternity clothing stores and stuff.

And like that led to then, you know, becoming friends with the store owner and doing, you know, mimosas with mom minis one Sunday morning kind of thing. And so. That was something that just helped me get involved with the community and stuff too.

Alison Bell: Yeah, I would say. Um, and so that same thing, I took that same technique probably from you and Ping with you, Melissa, in Virginia Beach.

Going back to when I tried to add on more newborns, right before we moved, I did the same thing with doulas. I was interviewing them, I gifted them like branding photos, so I had had pretty photos of my thing and then they could go use them and then refer me. It didn’t work. But I don’t think it didn’t work because the tactic wasn’t right.

I just wasn’t there long enough for that to, to hit home. You know what I mean? Some things that have worked for me free, many sessions, like straight up, free, multiple families in one spot. So you get to see, you know, you change, you see the light over the course of an hour at a place. You experience the crowd, you experience the place.

I did the free mini sessions. Everywhere. I think everywhere. I don’t think that there’s a place. I haven’t done them.

Melissa Arlena: I think that was how Alice and I met, she was advertising on Instagram, half Price Minis, and I’ll tell you that made my blood boil. Boil y’all. I saw that and I was like, how can you half price the mini?

They’re already super cheap. Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah.

Alison Bell: They were half the price in my regular session, and

Melissa Arlena: that was at the, and then I dove in and I was like, oh, she’s

Alison Bell: actually

Melissa Arlena: really smart. Click bait. Click bait. Right? And then I, then I tracked her down at a photo session accidentally and was like. We have to chat.

Alison Bell: Yeah, yeah. Which, and here we’re here. We’re literally be nice to other photographers in the field. Please, y’all introduce yourself. Uh, nine times outta 10 people are not very, I get side eye when I like go up to shake their hand, but anyway. But yeah, mini sessions. I did free mini sessions on a scouting trip out to Hawaii.

I saw how crowded the beaches were on a weeknight. That was intense. I realized how long the drive is around the bay from the Marine Corps base, all the way to where I did a field and mountain mountain session, and I was like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe in rush hour traffic. You go, you guys drove 50 minutes to one hour to come to this free mini session.

Oh, and it rains here a lot. I learned a ton from that, but I also had a variety of, of styles and, and imagery and locations to, to shoot. So it was, I learned a lot, both good and bad.

Sabrina: Okay. I wanna end with this question because I have a feeling that we’ve got some listeners that are hearing this and they’re like, yeah, I’m gonna niche down, or we’re moving, or whatever.

They know that it’s coming and maybe they’re in that like paralyzation mode, you know, like there’s so much to do. There’s so much changing. It’s like the, the planning paralyzation, you know, just Yeah. The freeze. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like what advice do you have for her?

Melissa Arlena: I would say the first thing is to start on your SEO, because that’s gonna take the longest to bake in.

So if you, if you’ve made that decision that we are moving, or you’ve made that decision, I’m gonna start this new genre or something like that. Focus on your SEO first, get those seeds planted, and then move on to the next thing. But that should always be your first thing. But then you can move on to, you know, all kinds of, I mean, there’s so many marketing ideas out there.

Alison Bell: I would say breathe. This does suck. It is hard. Identify it, accept it. Acknowledge it. Feel the feels when you feel overwhelmed and frustrated and angry and wanna cry. Like let it, let it roll. And then put, let that be the fire in your belly to get it done. SEO Absolutely. That the, the decision, you gotta have a job dead decision regardless of what that is.

You’ve got to have that decision and you need to decide what one thing has to be transitioned first. If that’s a moving structure, if that’s a genre type, if you’re multiple genres, if that’s your location, whatever it is. Pick the one thing that’s got to be successful first and start there. Let that be your focus for SEO, for your webpages, for your blogging efforts, for whatever it is.

Like put that one thing. Focus. Focus there. Do as much as you can there. Write it all out on giant Post-it. Post-it pair. I have a few of those from all of mine, all my transitions. But brain dump the mess outta that. Focus on the one thing that you’re moving usually is the thing that’s most profitable, right?

Like make the most money. Then let the rest go until you have room to breathe and you feel like you can, you can add more on.

Sabrina: Yeah, that’s a great piece of advice. Okay, this was such a valuable chat. I wanna end with some fun questions just so the audience can get to know you ladies a little bit better.

Um, so I’m gonna ask each, each of you both of these questions just for some quick fun answers here at the end. Um, what is a hobby or something fun that you are pursuing purely for joy this year? Paddle

Alison Bell: I picked up this time last year. I picked up, uh, paddling on, it’s a six man outrigger canoe, so it’s a Hawaiian style, um, paddle.

And so we live on this bay, which is. Stunning and beautiful, and it overlooks the Klaw Mountains and it’s just. So ridiculous that we live here. And so every Tuesday I go out there, rain or shine, wind or no wind, glossy. We see whales and dolphins and um, sorry, not dolphins, uh, sea turtles. Some other people have seen dolphins.

I personally have not seen them, man rays. Um, but we just get out there and we get wet and we’re in the sun and we’re, I’m talking with people, I’m living my life and I’m making the most of being in Hawaii. ’cause this too will be short lived.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah, it was funny ’cause I, I knew that was gonna be Allison’s answer and I’m like, hers is way cooler than mine.

Um, I would say. Just kind of getting back into like decorating my house and doing, doing things around it to like, make it more personalized and stuff. Um, you know, I just pulled out all the Halloween decorations, so my front porch is all cute and stuff like that. And that’s kinda, I find when I like, I like doing that stuff so when I don’t do it, then I’m like, I’m missing that piece.

Like I’m missing something that’s just for me. It’s fun.

Sabrina: Yeah. I totally, totally feel you on that’s like. We got, we start going through the motions of life and stop doing like the fun little, little pieces of joy, like little moments of joy, little things. So I love that for you.

Melissa Arlena: What is something that you’re always up to talk about?

Um, I would say for me, I was thinking about this and I would say it’s like making your business profitable. Like I will annoy the heck outta people about like, Hey, so what are your numbers and what do you need to book and what’s your pricing and what’s this or what’s that? I, I was on a consult with a girl once about SEO and I’m looking at her page and I’m like, girl, you need a membership.

You need to add a membership in. And sure enough, she added it and then she messaged me. She’s like, I’ve already booked the membership since you add, since I added it. I’m like, see, see. Um, so I think for that, I probably can be annoying about that. I, the,

Alison Bell: I draw a blank of this. I go, I probably go education.

One thing, I’m, I’m always willing and have always talked my ear off when it comes up, is probably the state of education right now. Mm. Not to feel political. No. I like, I was a homeschool mom on a volunteer basis for seven years. Three of mine are in private school. One’s in public school, like, yeah.

Sabrina: Yeah.

We’ve got three in public school. We’ve, and yes. I’ll just say yes. Yes, exactly. Yep. Yep. Same. So I said Melissa first. My mine is more fun. My listeners, no, but my answer’s always Taylor Swift. Um, but specifically like the wild lore and like just there’s so many ridiculous Oh yeah. How the whole relationship is a PR thing.

There’s, there’s a lot of, I still am holding onto that. There’s a lot of wild and I just think it’s fascinating. I don’t watch a whole lot of tv, so I don’t have any of that. But, uh, that’s my one. Where’s your next vacation? Kauai. Ooh, fun.

Alison Bell: Kauai or so that’s the next one. We’re planning for the family. I actually news to the podcast turned 40 next February.

February 20 or six. Yeah. Next year is 26. Right. I have always said my birthday’s Valentine’s Day, I have said for years, and told my husband I wanted to be somewhere that was hot on the beach, on my butt with the beverage on my actual birthday. And now as soon as we got orders to Hawaii, he was like, done.

Done that. Like. Well, Hawaii has weather too, and February’s the middle of the windy, rainy season, and so my backyard doesn’t suffice anymore. Mm. Although I could just go across the other side of the island, but it’s still 40. It’s still a big birthday, so we’re still, I don’t know if it’s gonna be a girl’s trip to like Maui or just me and Colin to, it’s, I don’t know, something amazing.

Something that’s mine. Melissa, what about you? Nice.

Melissa Arlena: So we are planning a big, um, a big trip next year. It’s gonna be one of those that the kids will remember forever type trips. We’re gonna charter a catamaran in the BVI for like 10 days, so we’ll do a bareboat charter ’cause we sail on the weekends and stuff.

Um, and so it’s a really, like we were able to go look at the boats at boat show and like show the kids like, this is the one we’re gonna do and show ’em the YouTube video of everything. But yeah, so we get to spend 10 days. Just sailing around the BVI or Bahamas. I’m not sure where we’re going exactly, but, but I think that’s gonna be that whole, like kids get, jump off the back of the boat and go swimming and stuff like that.

I’m gonna have somebody cook food for us so that way I can just reheat. ’cause I don’t wanna be making dinner while vacation. Um, and we’re gonna sail around and stuff. So we had, so we had friends in Virginia Beach,

Alison Bell: three couples and did that kid list. Of course we had kids so

Melissa Arlena: we couldn’t go. Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of friends who do it, um, as couples without the kids and stuff.

So we’re, but we’re the ones who have all the kids and everything. Yeah. So that’s why’s Love that. So we’re gonna take all of them. Last

Sabrina: question. What’s a business tool or hack that you’re loving right now? I. Hiring a va? Yes. Hiring. Hiring. Anyone? Just hiring.

Alison Bell: Yeah, just hiring. Yeah. Um, it’s scary as get out, like, am I gonna have that money in three months?

I, I don’t know. Step, leap of faith, right? Like, I don’t know. We’ll see. But yeah, hiring a va, it’s, it’s been hard learning how to train and think thinking in an employer mode of, of training and teaching and, and managing my expectations because I know what I can do. It’s definitely a learning curve, but

Sabrina: Lord have mercy as a dream.

Yeah. Yes, definitely. Buying your time back is amazing. Melissa, what about you? Mm-hmm.

Melissa Arlena: Yeah.

Sabrina: I would say

Melissa Arlena: for me it’s probably ai, like using, I use Claude and it’s just, I tend to use it as to help me brainstorm stuff, to help me narrow things down, to help me come up with ideas that I wasn’t necessarily thinking about before.

Um, I do yell at it sometimes and tell it it’s stupid and that it doesn’t tell me the right information. Yeah. She’s that in there. A lot of times. Yes, I do. I would type, I get mad at it sometimes and I’m like. And, um, I’m just like, I don’t, I think so my favorite thing is where did you get that from? Like, and it’s like, oh yeah, I hallucinate.

I’m like, you’re not allowed to do that. Like, I get, that’s hilarious. Hilarious. So hilarious. But I like, that’s why I don’t trust it a hundred percent on stuff, but I do like it for brainstorming because then I’m like, Hey, I’m trying to come up with another lead magnet for the blogging club or group coaching or something.

And I’m like, Hey, help me come up with ideas. And it knows enough about my business to help me with that. So those areas, I’m like, okay, but I’m not gonna have it like write it for me. I just want it to help me brainstorm. She just told me to do that yesterday on Polo.

Sabrina: I love ideating, so I prefer chat GPT, but it doesn’t matter.

My but my, my chatty G. Yeah, my chatty G knows me really, really well and she. We’ll come up with something and she’ll be like, and this pulls in from this and this and this, and some of it. I’m like, oh yeah, I forgot that’s over here. And I forgot that’s over here. But she remembers everything because she’s not in perimenopause.

So, you know, and I, I just love it because I’m like. Yes, you can see everything. You know who my people are and what,

Melissa Arlena: whatever. It’s just, yeah, I’ve used it for meal planning. When we went on the boat this summer, I was like, Hey, I’ve gotta feed three kids, two of which are growing teenage boys who eat everything.

We’re gonna be on a boat. We have limited storage for food, limited refrigeration, and I need like two or three meals. It was amazing. There’s your

Alison Bell: next freebie download. Get Jack GT’s meal planning guide from Perfect. Oh my God, I can’t say it. Picture perfect rankings com. I

Sabrina: know it’s

Alison Bell: if you

Sabrina: allow it to, it is so helpful.

Mm-hmm. And so great.

Melissa Arlena: Even my husband was impressed. He was like, and I mean it had recipes, shopping list, grocery list. ’cause then it, and I was like, oh. And I told it. I was like. Organize the grocery list. So everything is in like the right sections and I’m not running all over the store. That’s how I write my list was like, yes, drop.

Yes.

Sabrina: Amazing. Okay, um, girls, this was such a great chat. Um, before we go, I want you both to tell the listeners where they can find you. Oh, I forgot

Alison Bell: about this part. Um, Allison bell.co. Allison with one L-A-L-I-S-O-N. Spell is regular, just BELL. I get so many, I get so many copies. Is that how Yes. Dot co. CO Um, all my goods are there.

Um, I’m on Instagram the most at Allison Doll. Photo.

Melissa Arlena: Um, so you can find me at, uh, picture perfect rankings.com. I have an Instagram account, but I’m never on it. So, um, and then, uh, you can find it. Actually both of us on our podcast. Keep it moving. Oh, yeah.

Sabrina: Oh yeah. Podcast. It

Alison Bell: went through my head. I was like, oh yeah, we’re, we’re on the podcast.

Of course they know, but no, like,

Sabrina: I’ll make sure to have all those links in the show notes. Ladies, thank you so much for a great chat. I appreciate you being here. Yeah, yeah, it was great. Alright, that’s it for this week. We’ll see you next time. Thanks so much for listening to the Shoot It Straight podcast.

You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode@sabrinagehart.com slash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gehart Photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review. Until next time, my friends shoot it straight.