25: Vulnerability in Messaging with Sara Gillis

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So many female creative entrepreneurs struggle with vulnerability in messaging. While being vulnerable is what helps you stand apart from the crowd, feelings of fear and imposter syndrome often hold business owners back. In today’s episode, I’m chatting with copy extraordinaire Sara Gillis about what we can do to move past that fear and ease into sharing more vulnerability online.

The Shoot It Straight Podcast is brought to you by Sabrina Gebhardt, photographer and educator. Join us each week as we discuss what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur while balancing entrepreneurship and motherhood. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in, yet willing to talk about the hard stuff too, Shoot It Straight Podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight.

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Review the Show Notes:

Get to know Sara (1:42)

Why female creative entrepreneurs struggle with vulnerability (4:47)

Getting past the fear of vulnerability (10:35)

What do my shoes have to do with my photography business? (15:23)

Overcoming fear and imposter syndrome (18:18)

Being pulled to share your vulnerable story (20:15)

Easy ways to be more vulnerable in your messaging (25:26)

Rapid-fire questions (28:14)

Connect with Sara:

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Website

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Review the Transcript:

Sabrina Gebhardt
On today’s episode of the shoot it straight podcast, we are chatting with my friend Sara Gillis. Sara is a magician with words. And today we are talking about something that is really, really important. And I think, actually I know a lot of creative females struggle with and that is being vulnerable in your messaging. Okay? Being vulnerable is being willing to share about yourself, your honest, true self and being willing to do that in your emails and in your blog, and online and social media. Being vulnerable is what helps you to stand apart from the crowd and yet so many female creatives struggle with this. And there’s a lot to unpack there and Sara and I are going to go there in today’s chat. So if you know that this is something that you are struggling with and that you want to get better at today’s episode is for you. Welcome to the shoot it straight podcast. I’m your host, Sabrina Gephardt. Here I will share an honest take on what it’s like to be a female creative entrepreneur. while balancing business motherhood and life. myself along with my guests will get vulnerable through honest conversations and relatable stories because we’re willing to go there. If you’re trying to find balance in this exciting place you’re in yet willing to talk about the hard stuff to just shoot it straight podcast is here to share practical and tangible takeaways to help you shoot it straight

Sabrina Gebhardt
All right, welcome back to the shoot it straight podcast my friends. I’m really excited because today I have my friend Sara Gillis on and she is a copywriter, extraordinaire and an internet friend and we’ve actually met in person, thank goodness for conferences. That’s one of my favorite things that I always talk about is conferences and making connections with people that you know on the internet and it’s so fun. But before we dive into today’s topic, which I’m really, really excited about because it comes up all the time with creative entrepreneurs, especially the females. Sara, I’m gonna let you do an introduction and then we’ll dive into the conversation.

Sara Gillis
Love it. Yes, I’m echoing what you said about conferences. They are a game changer for sure. Yeah, I am Sara Gillis. I’m a copywriter based out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. So up here where it is a real snowy mess today, happy to be here. I write mostly for photographers and female entrepreneurs. That’s just kind of where my heart is, and have kind of a strange, I guess, story coming into entrepreneurship because I was a teacher for almost a decade, and really felt the pull to kind of leave the classroom behind and instead kind of write for business owners who need help telling their stories. And it’s been a few years since then. It’s been a great adventure. Yeah, that’s

Sabrina Gebhardt
awesome. So how long have we known each other now? When which reset? Did we meet at? I

Sara Gillis
only been one on one. So yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
though, which one you were in last year? Okay. Okay. So it’s only been a year, not even a year? Yeah. That’s crazy. Because I would have said it was at least more than a year. Okay. Right. I know, I haven’t even known each other a year. But I was following you before that. And then I got to meet you and seeing how your business has expanded and, you know, shifted with needs and with desires. And just all of that has been really, really fun to see you kind of land firmly where you are now, which is such an awesome place. And you’re so good at what you do. Thanks. So today’s conversation, we’re talking about the need and the necessity for vulnerability and messaging. And messaging is, I see it as a broad topic. You know, when there’s so much messaging, when you’re an entrepreneur, I mean, social media, newsletters, your website, emails, I mean, like the messaging is, is everywhere. And in all of the years that I have been coaching photographers and creative entrepreneurs, it’s a struggle I see over and over and over again, the fear of being themselves. So whether they’re afraid of being too personal on social media, or they don’t want to send those regular email newsletters, because like, no one wants to hear from me, you know, it’s a real struggle. So I think, like a lot of things we talk about on this podcast, there’s, there’s stuff to unpack there, right? The reasons why there’s their stuff there. So we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to start at the top though, why do you think female creative entrepreneurs struggle? Why do you think they’re hesitant to share about themselves and be vulnerable?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I mean, I’m coming at this from a copy perspective. have obviously but I’m also like, I never saw myself being a business owner, I don’t really have a lot of business owners in my family. And so this is a really unique lens for me to come to it as well, because I realized I had to just do it, I had to do the thing. I think that we hear all the time about like the know, like trust funnel, right. But I think for new business owners, women, especially, we really want to be liked. It’s it’s that very, like, that initial desire, we want to be liked. We don’t want to push anyone’s buttons. We don’t want to say no, we want to focus on Well, I could do that. I mean, I can do those things. Do I want to do those things long term? Is that a service? I want to continue offering? I don’t know. But at the very like beginning stages, we’re focused on wanting to be liked. And so we don’t want to appear too much of anything. We don’t want to have that excess. And I think that that excess is where the magic is, right? The the too much is really where the magic is. So I think that once we move out of that desire to be liked, which I mean, it’s different for everyone, right? But like, eventually, what I realized is that, yeah, being liked is great, but I want to be respected. I want to move into that kind of next phase of it. I want to be respected for all of the pieces and parts that I bring to the table as a copywriter. Yeah, business owner. That’s a real crux, I think, for many female business owners is what does it look like to be respected? Right, it’s, and as a business owner, it’s not necessarily all those diplomas hanging on your wall, right, which is where my background has been comfortable in, right, like, I have a master’s degree. And that’s my, that’s my thing. But when I left that kind of path behind, or took it in a different way, I was trying to figure out how I can be respected. I was done with trying to be liked. I mean, that’s it. That’s an exhausting process. But then it was about being respected. And how do you be respected? You show what you know. And so you hide behind that knowledge, right? You push out that knowledge and say, look, look, look at all the things I know. Yeah. And eventually, I think that every female business owner has to kind of get to that point where they really just want to be known and seen. And that’s where the vulnerability comes in. That’s why it’s so key.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, I think that’s huge. And going back to what you said a minute ago, when a female creative starts her business, it’s all about like, wanting people to like, and it’s, it’s almost trying to gain the masses, right? Like, I want everybody to like me, I don’t want to be too much of anything or too little of anything. So I just want to be right in the middle. But, and I really do think that we have all struggled with that in the beginning, you know, because it’s natural to think, Okay, I’m gonna open my doors and go into business, therefore, I need all these people to be successful, but they really pull it back. And you’re like, I really don’t need that many people to be successful. Right? Like, it doesn’t take that much, right. Speaking to photographers, which is who you really write for and who a lot of listens to this podcast, you don’t need all that many clients in a year to be, quote unquote, successful and to be profitable, and to take home a great paycheck, right? You need your people, lead your people, you need people that you can act with that respect you that see you that want to work with you. And when you’re too busy out there trying to be all the things to all the people, you don’t, there’s nothing special about you. There’s nothing that pulls people in to connect, you know, you get lost in the masses.

Sara Gillis
Right, exactly. And I think that, I mean, I would argue that, you know, business owners, for sure, new ones start out in that kind of, like desire, that desire to be liked. But I’ve even noticed as my business has scaled and grown, I go back to that desire to be liked. Yeah, I work back through this funnel all the time. It’s like, as your business grows and evolves, and as you and your skills grow and evolve, I feel like we’re, we’re constantly battling against that desire of do I want to be liked? Do I want to be respected? Well, I want to be all the things but what the power is, what the magic is, is truly being known and seen by people that really want to work with you.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, exactly. So do you think and I think I already know the answer to this because I think we’ve kind of spoken around it but do you think that this this ease in being more vulnerable and really being known comes with like time and experience?

Sara Gillis
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think I I’m not immune to like having figured it out. Like I’m not coming from a point of figuring it out. But I do think that that those initial moments, those initial months for me, it was months where I was in that like that I want to be liked that desire play. so that I feel like those initial months were really hard. And coming out of that took time. And so I feel like yes, it takes time. But at the same point of view, like, I think that you can feel like you’ve made it out of that desire out of that trap of wanting to just be liked. And then you can find yourself back in it. So it’s really just a constant, a constant desire and a constant quest to continue to just focus on your people. Your magic yourself.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah. So if somebody is just starting their business, and they’re stuck in that initial, that initial like, everybody has to like me, I’m just going to be right in the middle, I’m not going to be anything too much too little too special, like, how can we encourage them to get out of their shell faster, and really share those pieces of them that are unique, and that make them feel maybe seem vulnerable? But it’s not really vulnerable? You know, getting them getting them past that fear?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I mean, I think of Jenna Kutcher. I mean, she built her influence on macaroni and cheese. And like, it’s just a matter of figuring out what your macaroni and cheese is like, do you? I mean, I think initially, when you’re talking about being vulnerable, people are like, Oh, I have boundaries. I don’t want to I don’t want to be too public with things. And it’s like, cool. You don’t have to be if you don’t want to show your kids faces on social media, you don’t have to, if you don’t even want to mention that you’re a mom, you don’t necessarily have to. But what is your mac and cheese? Like? What is your special thing that you can help people to know? What is that thing that you will be mentioning every once in a while and slowly be known for? Maybe you love a certain brand of shoes, and that’s what you wear and all your brand photos. And that eventually comes through. I mean, maybe you are kind of a local coffee shop connoisseur. And that’s really where your your heart is. And so that’s something that people can can attach to. And they’ll think of you when they see those shoes, or they order their coffee, I think that that’s a great place to start. And the other like real crux of this is that vulnerability doesn’t have to mean that you lay it all out on the table boundaries can still be in place, and you can still connect with your audience. You just don’t have to leave it all out there.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, and I think that’s such a such a huge point. Vulnerability does not have to mean pulling the demons out of the closet, it does not have to mean sharing all of your darkest secrets. Vulnerability is just setting yourself out from the crowd and being okay with sharing, like your quirks and things that maybe your your real life friends, no, but but your quote unquote, general public social media presence doesn’t know like being willing to, you know, be snarky, and like you said, share brands and habits. And I also think there’s a level of trying different things and seeing what sticks and what feels good, right? Like, maybe one week or one month, you really lean into sharing like day in the life or what you have for breakfast every morning or whatever. And then seeing how your audience connects with that. Because you’ll know, you will know once you’ve hit a connection point, it’ll feel good to you, your audience will respond. And then you’re like, well, that that’s it. That’s my mac and cheese, this is the thing that I can be vulnerable about and honest about that will set me apart from everybody else.

Sara Gillis
Yeah. And I think that’s what it comes down to is vulnerability helps to create that connection. And whether you’re trying to sell to your audience now or in the future, that connection has to happen first, like when you’re serving the heck out of your people, right? When you start like you’re that new business owner who’s just trying to get their feet wet. When you’re serving the heck out of your people. You need that vulnerability to connect with them and to have them connect with you. And that’s true when you’re selling to them too.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, yeah. When you are willing to be a little bit personal and really authentic and stand out. That’s what pulls in the right people. And that’s also what, what makes them want to choose you over 10 other of you who are in your same community offering the same thing around the same price or maybe even not at the same price. They have latched on to you for a reason because you’ve given them something to latch on to you can’t just raise your hand and say, I’m a photographer, I charge this much. I photographed families, cool. There are 1 million of you. Right, like what makes somebody want to work with you. It’s there’s got to be something and and maybe it’s not even something that they do or agree with. It’s just something that they recognize you for and they think it’s funny or they love that about you or they love seeing that pop up in their feed or in their inbox. It is something that has connected them That makes them want you over everybody else. That’s what that authenticity brings that desire.

Sara Gillis
Absolutely. And I mean, that’s not something that everybody has, like that uniqueness, that magic, that vulnerability that’s yours. And even if you love macaroni and cheese to you use it and talk about it differently than others.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Right? Right. So I know there’s going to be women listening to this that are like, but what do my shoes have anything to do with my photography business? Right? Or what does my morning routine or my green smoothie have anything to do with getting people to pay me to photograph their wedding? Right, right. What do you say to that? What do you say to the person that’s like, I still am not understanding what the point of this is? Why? Why do I have to do this?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I think that it comes down to that, that knowing that sense of being seen, if someone else shows up with kind of like me right now with their hair back and headband, covering up the mess, then it gives permission for other people to do the same. If you are worried as a business owner, that oh, man, if I show up the way I am, they’re gonna figure out that I’m kind of a mess, sometimes. You know what, that’s beautiful. Like, there’s magic in that, because you’re giving that permission to other people to do the same thing. And you’re sharing that uniqueness that you bring to the table in only the way that you can? And so do your shoes have to do with, you know, have anything to do with how you sell a wedding? No, not necessarily. But what if you show up wearing those shoes, your bride might know, she might notice and might talk about it. And it might be a cute connection point. Or it’s just an extension of your personality. And that’s what gets you the bookings, the personality that you bring your unique lens through which you view things view the world.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s, it’s not just bringing in first time clients, but it’s getting people to be longtime clients. It’s the beginning of a relationship. Right? It’s, it’s like when you go to a Christmas party, and you’re meeting new people, the people that you are going to remember when you leave are the people that you have connection points with, right there, you really deeply belly laughed with them, you have something in common, you heard a funny story. I mean, it’s, it’s the people that were with you authentically, and were willing to really be there and go past the, oh, what do you do? What’s your name? Okay, nice to meet you. And moving right on, you’re not gonna remember those people. And they’re not gonna remember you, you know.

Sara Gillis
And from a photography perspective, like you’re capturing some of these most important and tender moments. And so you want those connections to happen. You want this to be a start of a relationship, even if you’re only a wedding photographer, only shooting that that moment where their family their story begins, you still want to create that relationship, because that relationship not only feeds you and your soul and what you’re doing, but it also feeds your couple. And that’s a really important thing that not a lot of people think about when it comes to client experience. Is that connectivity.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, I totally agree with that. So I really think that impostor syndrome has a big role to play in being afraid to be vulnerable and share yourself in your messaging on all platforms. Okay, like being willing to tell the story or share the thing anywhere. You know, creative entrepreneurs are always like, who wants to hear from me who wants to hear that? Who am I to tell that story? Who am I to create that offering? There’s really that struggle of like, nobody cares. Nobody wants to know anything like that. How do you get them to work past that and get out of their own way?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, I think it’s twofold. Right? So I think that when, when I write for people, the question I ask in return is why not you? Why not share those things? I mean, I’m not immune to impostor syndrome. It, it is like that devil on your shoulder that creeps up every day. It’s one of those things that I think comes naturally, with business ownership, is having to continually say, you know, what, no, I got this, why not me. The other thing I have to do with my clients particularly, is to show them why it matters. And so when they look at samples of my work, or when I write something for them, and I say look, that coffee order that you don’t even like think twice about at the coffee shop that made magic right here in this email copy or that stuck out on your about page because it’s a connection point. Maybe somebody else loves the toasted white chocolate mocha and you’re you’re that kind of connector, and that’s a really cool thing. And so in practice You have to show it to them in practice. But you also have to talk about mindset. I mean, mindset comes back to messaging all the time. What is what is that purpose that you’re trying to live out? And how can you share that with other people?

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah. So, you know, just getting past the imposter syndrome to be willing to share about yourself at all is hard. But let’s talk about when there really is a struggle, or a problem, or something that maybe we view as negative. I know, personally, I’ve had experiences in my own business where there have been really hard things that I feel the tug to share about. And maybe my friends and family don’t understand, because I have been in business for 12 years. And so I do have a, quote unquote, larger platform than maybe somebody that’s brand new. But sometimes I feel that tug to share, and that that’s a really public share. And it’s a hard thing. And I will write out the email or the blog post. And and then I kind of pause and I, there’s fear there of like, Am I really doing this? Because that’s a whole other level of vulnerability. And before I jump ahead and tell you how it ended up, what do you say to somebody who has a story, or is going through an experience and maybe feels the pull to share, but there’s some fear there with that vulnerability?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, there’s no one size fits all solution here. I think for me, and in my own life, there’s freedom and owning your story and telling it, that doesn’t mean that you have to tell it all. That doesn’t mean you have to tell it right now, time is a real gift. And perspective is a real gift. And so if you don’t want to say it today, but maybe six months from now, you feel like Oh, this feels better, I’m in a better place, I can maybe share this, then maybe that maybe follow that impulse. But I mean, as my decade of teaching, tells me to that like, let it sit for just a second, when you get that angry email from a student who’s like, I didn’t like that grade that you gave me. It’s like, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna respond to that in my head first, and then I’m gonna give it 24 hours and see what kind of what kind of lemonade I can make out of the situation. I think that giving it a pulse, and a beat, gives you a little bit more perspective. But gosh, there are many things that I’ve written or that I’ve shared about that are in real time that I share about later. And, to me, you’re the author of your story, you can decide if and when you want to share that stuff.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah. And for me personally, every single time, it has created a really deep connection point with, maybe not all of my clients, maybe not all of my potential clients, but enough that I am able to see the impact, and recognize that that’s why I was supposed to share the thing, whatever the thing is, right? And there have been some instances where that impact is felt for years. I mean, I will have people come back to me several years later, I remember when you wrote that blog post, and I’ve already I’ve forgotten it, I’ve moved past it. Right? Right. And they it still sits with them. Or it comes up for them when they are then entering a similar, you know, struggle or problem, right. And it’s that it’s that human connection, that has absolutely nothing to do with my business, absolutely nothing like they’re not even remotely related. But it is connecting with humans in my community on a level that just brings us together. So that when they need family photos, they feel really deeply connected to me, you know, so I’m not using it as a selling point. But I share that just because being willing to be vulnerable, as an entrepreneur, as women who have audiences, because when you’re an entrepreneur, you have an audience, period, end of story, right? And no matter how big or how small, being willing to be vulnerable in your story, whether it be email, blogs, whatever, it creates that human connection, and maybe they hire you later, maybe they tell a friend about you, maybe you just stay online friends, but it’s that vulnerability that’s beautiful in entrepreneurship, because we spend a lot of time by ourselves. Yeah,

Sara Gillis
mostly. Yeah, yes. And honestly, like, I’m thinking as you’re talking, I’m thinking back to this women’s event. I spoke at this spring and I shared with them some mental health struggles that I’ve had my past and a lot of them came up to me afterwards and they’re like, first of all, I never realized and second of all, thank you so much for saying that. And it’s like, you know, as business owners, we can face this loneliness we can have all of these feelings of impostor syndrome. He can have all of these worries and feel feel like we aren’t necessarily equipped to move forward in business or to move forward in general. And I feel like bringing light to that helps others to see the light in that and to see the opportunity to really rebuild and to focus ahead on what’s to come. And what can be, which is a really powerful thing.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So there is for sure, at least one woman that is listening to this episode and thinking, yes, okay, I get it, I need to be better about being vulnerable, and my messaging and online. What are some, like, easy ways to do that, like some low hanging fruit? What are some suggestions you have, whether it be email, social media website, whatever.

Sara Gillis
I mean, I, what I’ve learned is that simply showing up in a way that feels okay to you that day is a great way to start. There are days where I’m like, oh, I should show my face on social media. And I’m like, Man, I don’t feel like it today. But I can still show up in a vulnerable way, I can still show up in a way that’s unique to me and to my personality. So whether that’s using words or phrases that I use a lot in my coffee, and my social captions, or in my stories, or showing my face, in a picture. In stories, that’s a great opportunity, or thinking back to a silly moment. For instance, my husband romance me with spaghetti like he made me homemade spaghetti. And who doesn’t love spaghetti, who doesn’t love a good love story, right. And so putting a little bit of that story into an email message or into a social caption can be a really great way to show a, he’s a good cook, and I’m lucky. But be it can show my personality and what I what I value and what I can bring to the table. And it’s more than just good food, right? I value that care that somebody takes to spend time nurturing you. And I know that that’s important as a business owner. And so that’s an easy connection point that that someone can bring, I think it’s it can be as simple as those little memories. But it can also be, you know, more complex, if you’re feeling that call to share something. Think about how you might share that whether or not it ties to business is irrelevant. You’re a person first.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s, that’s a really good point to end on. Whether or not it applies to your business is irrelevant. It’s just sharing about you as a human being. Right? You know, you are more than your business so much more. And even if like you said earlier, even if you’re not comfortable sharing about your family, your kids, that’s fine. You are a human being you are you were a person before you were married, you were a person before you had kids, you are a person before you’re a business owner. And all of that matters, right? All of it matters. There is no one else like you. You are super unique. And no matter what your quirks are, no matter what your experience is, no matter what your story is, no matter what truth you’re living in right now. Pete There are people out there that will connect with you if you let them.

Sara Gillis
Yeah, absolutely. If you open that door there are people on the other side. Yeah,

Sabrina Gebhardt
absolutely. Okay, so I like to end every episode with a few rapid fire kind of fun questions. So what is your current favorite coffee shop order?

Sara Gillis
I am a sucker for a white chocolate mocha. So Starbucks is toasted white chocolate mocha right now is speaking my language. I love it. Love it.

Sabrina Gebhardt
dream vacation, and this is money is no object. Kids are not with you.

Sara Gillis
Love that. Okay. Um, my husband and I would love to go to Hawaii for a couple weeks. That would be ideal.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Oh, yeah, that’s on my list. I keep thinking next year. And I’ve said that for the past few years. You know, so maybe in 2023, that’ll happen. Okay, so thinking back over the course of your business, what was the decision or investment that you made? That was the biggest game changer for you?

Sara Gillis
Yeah, this is a great question. I think it’s not just in business. But in life in general, investing in education has always been, like, the best investment I’ve ever made. I mean, I went to college, I have a master’s degree. So that part of my life like the the formal education piece, obviously investing in that has prepared me for what I’m doing today, but also prepared me to teach for a decade. So that has been really fruitful, but also just an opening my worldview, in terms of what, what’s going on in the world, reading literature and writing stories about kind of that human experience. And all of that came from education. Now education looks a little different, right? I’m a business owner. So education is investing in coaching or investing in conferences and that’s still is such a game changer. I’m still seeing emotional and financial dividends from those experiences. And I gotta tell you that emotional ones are really impactful.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I’m a huge believer of that. I mean, there is, I think personally, there is zero risk involved with investing in education of some sort, whether it be like you said, a conference or coaching or whatever the emotional rewards the community building, and sure you get business inspiration and learning on top of it, and maybe that’s why you went in, but that ends up being like the bonus, because all the other stuff is just so valuable. Okay, if you weren’t doing copywriting for photographers, and female creatives, right now, what do you think you’d be doing?

Sara Gillis
I would probably be pursuing my PhD. That was something that weighed really heavily on my heart for a few years, and I have kids who are 10, and eight, and it’s just not the right time in my life. I’ll be honest with you, it’s still on my bucket list. I would love to have someone call me Dr. Gillis. I think that’s super cool. Yeah. But at the same time, my life has changed so much that that PhD in literature that I thought I would be doing is not really on my heart anymore. So I’m open to whatever God tells me is next, and when it comes to that education piece, but I do think that that would be a big part of my story if I wasn’t doing what I’m doing now.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah, that’s awesome. I love that. Okay, so before we go and share how people can connect with you how they can work with you. Give me all the goods.

Sara Gillis
Yes, love it. So thank you so much for having me. You can find me online at what Sara said.com. I’m also available on Instagram. That’s kind of where I hang out at Hello, Sara Gillis, but I would love love love to work with anyone who’s wanting to bring that vulnerability into their copy. And again, vulnerability doesn’t have to mean sharing the scary stuff. It can be the fun stuff, too.

Sabrina Gebhardt
Yeah. And I can say that I have used Sara and she’s fantastic. So she gets my gold star of approval. I will have all of her links and everything in the show notes. This was such a great chat today. Thank you for being here. I can’t wait for this to get out into the world and everybody to hear and be encouraged to be vulnerable in their copy and in their messaging because it is it really does reap rewards. It may feel scary at first, but it is such a beautiful thing to see the right people connect with you and come in. It makes being a business owner. Really, really wonderful. So yeah, and way less lonely. Yes. Thanks for being here today, my friend. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the shoot it straight podcast. You can find all the full show notes and details from today’s episode at Sabrina gebhardt.com backslash podcast. Come find me and connect over on the gram at Sabrina Gebhardt photography. If you’re loving the podcast, I’d be honored if you hit that subscribe button and leave me a review. Until next time, my friends shoot it straight.

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